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March 2, 2021 9:12 pm  #31


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

So, I had it on in the car today. The Bloomberg program had a break built right in for commercials. The announcer said "Time for a commercial break. But when we come back - - -"

That would have been the perfect spot for some local commercials. Instead, they filled in the time with promotions for various CTV programs.

After the break, they came back with the item the guy had promised, but about one minute into it they cut away for commercials. Never did get to hear the rest of that story.

It sounds like they've got the timing off for the radio automation. The CTV promos covering the commercial break are probably from the TV feed. The radio spots that were supposed to cover that fired at the wrong time.
 


 
 

March 2, 2021 9:31 pm  #32


Re: CKOC Hamilton

If they don't care enough to make it a successful station, they should just surrender their license and let someone else try.

     Thread Starter
 

March 2, 2021 9:34 pm  #33


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

If they don't care enough to make it a successful station, they should just surrender their license and let someone else try.

Sure, I don't disagree. But they're not breaking any license conditions, and the demand for the frequency wouldn't likely extend beyond an existing station looking to upgrade their signal. Little gain for listeners either way.


 
 

March 3, 2021 11:35 am  #34


Re: CKOC Hamilton

And the desperate rise to mediocracy continues.
 

 

March 3, 2021 1:20 pm  #35


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

If they don't care enough to make it a successful station, they should just surrender their license and let someone else try.

The issue is, it's AM!   No one in their right mind would want it unless they plan to replace a current signal that may not be as strong.   Talk, News, Sports are very heavy in the market, and music on AM just isn't going to be a winner.   

And before anyone tries to say "but 1220"...    I can promise you... 1220 will find it hard to make inroads to make sellable ratings and income as a stand alone AM station, without resorting to flipping to something based on brokered time, like religion or multi-cultural.   900 and 610 already cover talk and doubtful they would try it.   740 can pull it off because they market the hell out of 96.7 FM, and the market size gives them more clients to pull from.

Bell is simply trying to cut their losses and trying to hold on until something becomes available via AM flipping to all digital perhaps, or a FM translator/repeater frequency being worth trying something else.   Currently FM freqencies are not available in the Hamilton market or they would have flipped years ago. 

Handing the license back is typically a last resort, and will be the next step should they not turn the ship at this point. 

 

Last edited by radiokid (March 3, 2021 1:23 pm)

 

March 3, 2021 1:47 pm  #36


Re: CKOC Hamilton

radiokid wrote:

turkeytop wrote:

If they don't care enough to make it a successful station, they should just surrender their license and let someone else try.

The issue is, it's AM!   No one in their right mind would want it unless they plan to replace a current signal that may not be as strong.   Talk, News, Sports are very heavy in the market, and music on AM just isn't going to be a winner.   

And before anyone tries to say "but 1220"...    I can promise you... 1220 will find it hard to make inroads to make sellable ratings and income as a stand alone AM station, without resorting to flipping to something based on brokered time, like religion or multi-cultural.   900 and 610 already cover talk and doubtful they would try it.   740 can pull it off because they market the hell out of 96.7 FM, and the market size gives them more clients to pull from.

Bell is simply trying to cut their losses and trying to hold on until something becomes available via AM flipping to all digital perhaps, or a FM translator/repeater frequency being worth trying something else.   Currently FM freqencies are not available in the Hamilton market or they would have flipped years ago. 

Handing the license back is typically a last resort, and will be the next step should they not turn the ship at this point. 

 

They could turn the ship with just a little effort, but they just don't care.

     Thread Starter
 

March 3, 2021 2:59 pm  #37


Re: CKOC Hamilton

radiokid wrote:

[Currently FM freqencies are not available in the Hamilton market or they would have flipped years ago. 
Handing the license back is typically a last resort, and will be the next step should they not turn the ship at this point. 

Bell did try to request a 3 AM and 3 FM ownership per market (instead of the current 2 AM and 2 FM max per owner) but CRTC said no. 
Regardless, even if they could, you're right. Moving the two AM stations to FM (820 & 1150) has no open space to make it possible anyway.
FM Repeaters are where FM would have happened by now if it could be done, maybe...?


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

March 3, 2021 9:04 pm  #38


Re: CKOC Hamilton

geo wrote:

CONTRARIAN OPINION:    The Bloomberg TV channel is popular (in my demo).   Regular viewers might engage the CKOC button in the family vehicle after leaving the comfort of TV rooms and heading out onto crowded highways  

Sure, some will. Not enough though.

Every AM station that will be successful in the future is already on the air.


 
 

March 3, 2021 9:11 pm  #39


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

They could turn the ship with just a little effort, but they just don't care.

No, there is no opportunity.

A business formatted AM station yields the same result whether executed meticulously or with commericals running over the programming.

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 3, 2021 9:18 pm)


 
 

March 3, 2021 9:13 pm  #40


Re: CKOC Hamilton

radiokid wrote:

Handing the license back is typically a last resort, and will be the next step should they not turn the ship at this point. 
 

My best guess is that the CKSL London situation was just foreshadowing. The next decade will see many AMs turn off when a transmission facility upkeep cost can't be justified.
 


 
 

March 3, 2021 10:28 pm  #41


Re: CKOC Hamilton

geo wrote:

CONTRARIAN OPINION:    The Bloomberg TV channel is popular (in my demo).   Regular viewers might engage the CKOC button in the family vehicle after leaving the comfort of TV rooms and heading out onto crowded highways  

I agree. They might. But they'll be awfully disappointed just tike I was, when they see how CKOC has butchered it.

Last edited by turkeytop (March 3, 2021 10:29 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

March 3, 2021 11:28 pm  #42


Re: CKOC Hamilton

RadioAaron wrote:

turkeytop wrote:

They could turn the ship with just a little effort, but they just don't care.

No, there is no opportunity.

A business formatted AM station yields the same result whether executed meticulously or with commercials running over the programming.

You are wrong.
1150 on the AM dial in Hamilton can be better maintained and cared for. They (Bell) just don't care. 


 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

March 3, 2021 11:31 pm  #43


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

geo wrote:

CONTRARIAN OPINION:    The Bloomberg TV channel is popular (in my demo).   Regular viewers might engage the CKOC button in the family vehicle after leaving the comfort of TV rooms and heading out onto crowded highways  

I agree. They might. But they'll be awfully disappointed just tike I was, when they see how CKOC has butchered it.

I agree. AM 1150, when better cared for has stronger hope for listenership. 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

March 4, 2021 11:20 pm  #44


Re: CKOC Hamilton

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

turkeytop wrote:

They could turn the ship with just a little effort, but they just don't care.

No, there is no opportunity.

A business formatted AM station yields the same result whether executed meticulously or with commercials running over the programming.

You are wrong.
1150 on the AM dial in Hamilton can be better maintained and cared for. They (Bell) just don't care. 


 

"Care" doesn't enter into it. It's just business. You can spend more money to make it better, but the effect of that doesn't make the money back. It's pretty simple.


 
 

March 4, 2021 11:30 pm  #45


Re: CKOC Hamilton

The air waves are a public property. If they are licensed to broadcast on the public air waves they should have a duty to provide high quality service.

     Thread Starter
 

March 4, 2021 11:32 pm  #46


Re: CKOC Hamilton

turkeytop wrote:

The air waves are a public property. If they are licensed to broadcast on the public air waves they should have a duty to provide high quality service.

There's no economic model for it to be a "high quality service." It's Bloomberg 1150 as-is or dead air.

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 4, 2021 11:43 pm)


 
 

March 5, 2021 1:43 am  #47


Re: CKOC Hamilton

RadioAaron wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:


No, there is no opportunity.

A business formatted AM station yields the same result whether executed meticulously or with commercials running over the programming.

You are wrong.
1150 on the AM dial in Hamilton can be better maintained and cared for. They (Bell) just don't care. 


 

"Care" doesn't enter into it. It's just business. You can spend more money to make it better, but the effect of that doesn't make the money back. It's pretty simple.

Fine then I don't care about the products advertised. Like I said, run the station better or find someone who can. 
Simple as that. 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

March 5, 2021 9:14 am  #48


Re: CKOC Hamilton

CKOC's fate won't change unless Bell gets out of the picture.  Right now they are just holding on to the license and making time, hoping and waiting for some change either technical or regulation that will put AM on a more equal footing with FM. 

If the station were sold to an independent, small broadcast group or someone with the money, willing to run it properly and spend on promotion as a community AM station or even a hybrid format it could be a success.  Again there is a whole layer of potential local advertisers that currently don't use any radio.  Screw the ratings, you aren't going to get much national anyway, so dump Numeris. 
 
Hamilton does tend to be loyal to their local media, even though they are overwhelmed with so many out of market competitors. If the station became independent and  local/regional, it could work.   A good potential buyer would be the owners of CHCH.  Channel Zero has no radio, already has a good news department and CKOC would be a perfect compliment with great cross promotion potential. CHCH is moving into new facilities soon, and CKOC moving with them and part of the company would make sense.

If having a broadcast license is in fact a responsibility and privilege then Bell should be told to either run the station properly or sell it.  At the very least clean up their act.  Clipped commercials and disjointed station breaks all day long is not acceptable, so fix it or give up the license. Like it or not, that is the price of doing business.   Waiting for some change in AM that may make it on a more equal footing with FM and just holding on to an AM license for the sake of having it is not a business plan either.  

 

March 5, 2021 10:01 am  #49


Re: CKOC Hamilton

SO, Bell Media to the people of Hamilton.

"Either accept the messed up programming we give you and support our advertisers, or you get nothing at all.""

     Thread Starter
 

March 5, 2021 8:40 pm  #50


Re: CKOC Hamilton

Bell has been my telephone and Internet provider forever. Seeing no how arrogant, greedy and uncaring they are, I decided to shop around for a new provider.

I made the switch today. Same level of service for less than half the monthly price.

     Thread Starter
 

March 5, 2021 8:53 pm  #51


Re: CKOC Hamilton

paterson1 wrote:

If the station were sold to an independent, small broadcast group or someone with the money, willing to run it properly and spend on promotion as a community AM station or even a hybrid format it could be a success.  Again there is a whole layer of potential local advertisers that currently don't use any radio.  Screw the ratings, you aren't going to get much national anyway, so dump Numeris. 
  

If an independent came along and offered to buy it from Bell they'd take it in a heartbeat. None have, because it would be foolish.

There is nothing stopping a local indie from getting into AM radio other than the lack of interest.

How many years has 1410 been off the air in London? Not a single application for that frequency.

Two huge AM frequencies in Montreal opened up over 10 years ago. An independent operator got licenses for them both to turn them into English and French News/Talk stations. Today, one is running podcasts and the other un-hosted music to an audience of zero. Surely if this made any sense, they'd have investors lining up to get this thing off the ground. Evanov made a good-faith attempt to revive 980 there, and it's now silent.

Bluntly, AM Radio is dead. There will not be another successful launch or format change. The only stations with any success left are doing so on momentum.

And frankly, who cares? I'm just old enough to have grown up on AM radio, and it inspired me to get into the business. "Audio" is healthier than ever, and consumer choice never been better. Who cares about anitquated delivery methods othen than peple whose incomes depend on it and and nostalgic hobbiests like those of us who care enough to post here?



 

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 5, 2021 9:05 pm)


 
 

March 5, 2021 8:54 pm  #52


Re: CKOC Hamilton

geo wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

   national advertisers won't likely bite   

Has this forum not agreed on numerous occasions that radio's future is local and/or specialty?
 

Local, for sure. Specialty, absolutely not. 


 
 

March 5, 2021 10:20 pm  #53


Re: CKOC Hamilton

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

If the station were sold to an independent, small broadcast group or someone with the money, willing to run it properly and spend on promotion as a community AM station or even a hybrid format it could be a success.  Again there is a whole layer of potential local advertisers that currently don't use any radio.  Screw the ratings, you aren't going to get much national anyway, so dump Numeris. 
  

If an independent came along and offered to buy it from Bell they'd take it in a heartbeat. None have, because it would be foolish.

There is nothing stopping a local indie from getting into AM radio other than the lack of interest.

How many years has 1410 been off the air in London? Not a single application for that frequency.

Two huge AM frequencies in Montreal opened up over 10 years ago. An independent operator got licenses for them both to turn them into English and French News/Talk stations. Today, one is running podcasts and the other un-hosted music to an audience of zero. Surely if this made any sense, they'd have investors lining up to get this thing off the ground. Evanov made a good-faith attempt to revive 980 there, and it's now silent.

Bluntly, AM Radio is dead. There will not be another successful launch or format change. The only stations with any success left are doing so on momentum.

And frankly, who cares? I'm just old enough to have grown up on AM radio, and it inspired me to get into the business. "Audio" is healthier than ever, and consumer choice never been better. Who cares about anitquated delivery methods othen than peple whose incomes depend on it and and nostalgic hobbiests like those of us who care enough to post here?



 

Well I am not really disagreeing with most of what you are saying.   As it sits now, AM is pretty much pooched and with the exception of a few cases doesn't have a future.  However, Bell needs to fix the technical problems with BNN Bloomberg, the sloppy station/commercials breaks and clipping of reports and commercials can't continue.  They should be told to get it together and soon, or there will be consequences.  Too bad they can't get fined for this somehow. Or can they?  Not CRTC, but Industry Canada?  I think then you would see the problems go away real quick.   Sorry Bell just sitting on a license doesn't cut it, and they should be embarrassed about the sloppy on air presentation. 

CKSL is not a good example and no surprise that there are no takers in London.  Poor frequency, needs a new transmitter with major reconstruction work at the tower site, small coverage area with a maximum of maybe 600,000 listeners daytime.  Montreal is a unique animal and I don't know enough about the market to really comment. However Montreal already is a more competitive radio region than Toronto and more complicated.  

So these issues don't apply so much to CKOC, with 50,000 watts daytime and a coverage area with about 8 million listeners.  CKOC reaches the Golden Horseshoe and doesn't have the technical issues of CKSL.  I think a marriage with CHCH could be very interesting and would benefit the television and radio operations greatly.  And I bet it would work and make money. 

The format for CKOC would be a good guess.  A talk/gold format would be different, and Hamilton only has one talk outlet with CHML which is becoming less local thanks to Corus. Hamilton has no local OTA CBC station.  Hamilton and area is big enough to support two talkers, and if they could continue with Ti Cat Football and Bull Dogs hockey you may have something.  The built in cross promo with CHCH and on air staff?  Bubba O'Neil from CHCH handling play by play for Ti- Cat games...please.. doesn't get much better!!

 

March 5, 2021 10:34 pm  #54


Re: CKOC Hamilton

paterson1 wrote:

 However, Bell needs to fix the technical problems with BNN Bloomberg, the sloppy station/commercials breaks and clipping of reports and commercials can't continue.  They should be told to get it together and soon, or there will be consequences.  Too bad they can't get fined for this somehow. Or can they?  Not CRTC, but Industry Canada?  I think then you would see the problems go away real quick.   Sorry Bell just sitting on a license doesn't cut it, and they should be embarrassed about the sloppy on air presentation. 

Sure, that's not unreasonable. But the mechanism isn't there. The CRTC can't just step in and say "This is sloppy and bad...fix it, or else..." They need to create regulations to reflect this and then punish license holders for breaking those rules. And the punishment can't be "sell the station" because there is no demand. So again, it's this or dead-air.

And yes, the commercials over programming issue will be fixed, maybe thanks to this board. Whoever set it all up probably never listened for any length of time because they were smart enough to know it didn't matter anyway in the bigger picture.

This idea of someone local stepping in and providing a full-service AM station is wonderful and all, but doesn't add up. I agree you'd have to throw out Numeris, but then what? Your local business potential advertisers are fewer-and-fewer every year, and increasingly those running the ones that are left will have never actually listened to AM radio in their lives. You may as well be asking them to hang a banner on the moon.

Your CHCH idea is probably *the* only thing that could "work," but it would be very short term. It would be a small flare-up after the fire has been otherwise put out.

Last edited by RadioAaron (March 5, 2021 10:44 pm)


 
 

March 5, 2021 11:39 pm  #55


Re: CKOC Hamilton

 "Whoever set it all up probably never listened for any length of time because they were smart enough to know it didn't matter anyway in the bigger picture..."   And smart enough to know it didn't matter anyway??  Please...smart wouldn't be the word.  Maybe lazy, uncaring, incompetent would be closer.  And it may get fixed because of this board?  Never saw that coming, but let's hope so for the sake of the audience trying to listen. These are business people, professionals tuning in, and if the station sounds like a confusing mess, they won't be around and the station is dead on arrival.  Simple. 

Some of what you are saying is true, but there is always the exception.  CKOC because of where they are,
and their particular situation might be an exception. I do disagree however that a marriage with CHCH would be a flash in the pan.  Hamilton is underserviced in terms of local media and the combination of TV and radio under one owner for the region would have some lasting appeal.
 
Local advertisers, I am not talking about mom and pop retailers or companies. There is a whole layer of medium sized businesses with budgets and money to spend that don't use radio.  Real estate, insurance, tax/accounting services, local home improvement companies and manufacturers, legal services and many co-op advertising opportunities would be just a few to focus on. The combination of a TV and radio buy would be appealing to these local businesses and services.  And if CKOC were to have a talk/information format base so much the better.  CHCH has the newsroom to help with all of this.    

 

March 10, 2021 12:36 pm  #56


Re: CKOC Hamilton

I have it on here today and it seems like they may be getting it together. I haven' heard them breaking away from the program to run ads. They insert them into the breaks in programming that are intended for ads.

But sometimes when they return, the next item is already in progress. I suppose that is a positive sign. They're selling lots of ads. It bodes well for their success. And they aren't all local ads. They've had ads for Telus, Tim Horton's and OLG. They even had an ad for a car dealer up in Barrie.

I'm encouraged. I want them to succeed.

Last edited by turkeytop (March 10, 2021 10:57 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

April 6, 2021 8:41 pm  #57


Re: CKOC Hamilton

Had it on in the car today for the first time in a few weeks. It seems they may have made some technical improvements. The last time I listened in the car it was very susceptible to noise interference from power lines etc. Today, the signal was pretty clear.

I wonder if they were operating on reduced power back in February and March and the've now fixed it, 

     Thread Starter