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November 1, 2020 8:37 pm  #1


Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

This is probably never going to become law, but the question has to be asked: what would happen to TV in this province if it did? And would it mean the end of most simultaneous substitution as we know it?
 
Global News’ lead story on Sunday was about a Conservative MPPs private member’s bill to keep Ontario on Daylight Saving Time all year long.

The complications that would ensue if this thing were to pass are immense and one of the most immediate impacts would be on primetime television in this province.
 
Consider:
 
We would keep our time the same in November, while the U.S. falls back to Standard Time. That means when it's 8 PM here, it’s only 7 o’clock across the border. As most here know, simsub is the practice of blacking out the U.S. signal in favour of the Canadian one, when both are carrying the same show at the same time.
 
But if the suggested change came to be, primetime in the U.S. wouldn’t start until 9 PM our time. That means no simsub for the first hour of primetime, presuming we still start our network shows at 8 o’clock.
 
They could reschedule everything from 9-11 PM and blackout the signal as normal, but what happens to the all important 11 PM news? It would only be 10 PM in the U.S., when popular shows like The Good Doctor or Chicago P.D. air down there. Stations here could choose to delay their newscasts to midnight to keep simsub active. But that would be crazy and destroy their ratings. Who’s staying up to 12:30 or 1 AM to watch the nightly news?
 
Or they could air some shows early at 8 o’clock, but then they still lose the simsub advantage.
 
And what happens to all those syndicated shows, like Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy and Entertainment Tonight that were purchased specifically to fill the 7-8 PM time slots and run concurrently with U.S. stations for more simsub opportunities?  
 
It’s a head spinning mess and the only answer seems to be to forget about simsub for at least two of those all important primetime hours. And it would almost certainly destroy the whole point of substituting the signals in the first place.
 
As noted, I will be very surprised if this ever happens. But if it did, I can only wonder how much the TV landscape would have to change for at least half a year in this province. And there’s no doubt local TV stations here would be totally against it.

 

November 1, 2020 8:49 pm  #2


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

The bill does indicate "the Attorney General would only enact the bill in “coordination” with Quebec and New York".

 

November 1, 2020 8:52 pm  #3


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Exactly, and that's why I'm sure it would never happen here. Although it's possible - but not likely - that Ontario could decide to go on its own. But it sure is interesting to consider the implications if it ever came to pass. 

     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2020 9:23 pm  #4


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Yes I have heard  that New York and Quebec would need to buy in, that Ontario would not do this on it's own. Too much confusion at the border with trade and travel and with plane and bus schedules (assuming these ever come back),  I did see a report that both NY and Quebec have expressed some interest however since they have kicked around the same idea in the past as well.  I wonder if Michigan would also be a factor or be considered.

Although it was in 1972 I believe when Michigan didn't change their time for one year during the fuel crisis.  I remember CKLW would give out time checks like 8 o'clock in Detroit and 7 o'clock at CKLW, or something like that.   I remember hearing an aircheck where the jock usually just did CKLW's time during his show.   Maybe since LW covered a few different time zones in the evening anyway? 

Top and bottom of the hour time checks always had both Windsor and Detroit time.  This confusion certainly didn't hurt LW ratings wise back in '72. .Their competition didn't need to worry about the time difference between Ontario and Michigan since they wouldn't be doing any time checks for Windsor..  

 

November 1, 2020 9:28 pm  #5


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Why doesn't the whole Eastern Time Zone in North America just stay on Daylight Savings Time?  It would even be odd having different times for Orlando, Florida and Toronto, Ontario
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

November 1, 2020 9:37 pm  #6


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Jody Thornton wrote:

Why doesn't the whole Eastern Time Zone in North America just stay on Daylight Savings Time?  It would even be odd having different times for Orlando, Florida and Toronto, Ontario
 

And that is why I'm convinced it will never happen. It would have to be all or nothing and not just New York State. How would they deal with Connecticut or New Jersey being an hour behind them? It's insane. 

If I recall correctly, wasn't Ontario dragged into altering the time we change the clocks a number of years ago? The U.S. decided that in an effort to help save energy, it would delay the switch back to Standard Time until November. It seems to me there was some debate about it in this province, before the powers-that-be here realized we all had to be on the same page or it would be chaos.

(Of course, it's still chaos in Canadian & U.S. politics, but at least our watches and clocks are synched up!) 

     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2020 11:44 pm  #7


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

The reason for wanting New York State to agree is all about the stock exchanges.   

The daylight saving time change was because of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 in the U.S.  It changed it for the whole country.  Canada really had no choice but to keep in step.

I always wondered why the U.S. never adopted the Atlantic time zone?  When the border was open, you could be in St. Stephen, NB and walk across the border to Calais Maine and you would go back in time an hour. 

But I do agree that we should just do away with the whole time change concept completely.  Just pick a time zone and keep it that way.
 

 

November 2, 2020 12:09 am  #8


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

We could all just move by :30 minutes and have done with this debate.


 
 

November 2, 2020 5:00 am  #9


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

I remember being in public school in the mid 80's
Yes, this was big news even then.
Didn't happen then, most likely won't happen now either.
=12pxWatch it be big news again in ten years...20 years...30 years...still with no change.
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

November 2, 2020 9:53 am  #10


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

My take on this is, there would be no going it alone for Ontario because of the ties between the Toronto, Montreal, and New York Stock Exchanges. None of them would want any other one to have a 1 hour advantage for 1/2 the year, and unless all three are onboard it won't happen. The rest of the eastern seaboard states and what they do or don't do would, I think, hardly factor-in to any decision..

 

November 2, 2020 10:12 am  #11


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

I'm pretty sure unless the entire U.S. decides on a year-long Daylight (or Standard) time, it's never going to happen.  

     Thread Starter
 

November 2, 2020 1:13 pm  #12


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

i remember this happening, in various parts of the u.s., during the 1970's energy crisis.

 

November 26, 2020 12:50 pm  #13


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

They actually passed this private member's bill, which almost never happens. But there's no way that they'll ever get New York State to follow suit, so it's dead in the water.

I always remember WOWO in Ft Wayne being forced to give two different time checks every break when the change was once made a number of years ago. I can't recall when they were on different clocks, but I do remember the announcers saying, "It's 10:15 in Indiana, 9:15 in Michigan and Ohio." Talk about a literal waste of air time!

Ontario passes bill to end Daylight Saving Time

     Thread Starter
 

November 26, 2020 1:30 pm  #14


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Of course, that would mean the end of 9pm sunsets in June and July. 
It would mean a couple sunrises at 4:15 am
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

November 26, 2020 1:48 pm  #15


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Actually, wouldn't it mean the exact opposite? We would be springing forward one more time, but then not falling back. So the late sunset would stay but the sun wouldn't rise until much later in the morning during the winter. IIRC, one of the modern reasons we put the clocks back in the Fall is so that kids don't have to go to school in the dark. Or am I mixing that up?

     Thread Starter
 

November 26, 2020 1:53 pm  #16


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

No - if it's saying that Daylight Savings Time bites the dust, then we stay on Standard time, which is where we are now.
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

November 26, 2020 2:08 pm  #17


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Ah, you may be right. I thought the bill was to keep DST and eliminate EST. But as I re-read the headline, it appears it's the other way around. I suppose this was wishful thinking on my part. I'd vastly prefer staying on daylight time for good. I like the later evenings, especially in the summer. Nothing is more depressing than the sun being gone at 4:30 PM in the dead of winter. I mean, winters are depressing enough! 

Either way, it doesn't matter. This is never going to happen because NY will never agree to it. Imagine the chaos, as it tries to deal with neighbouring Connecticut, New Jersey and even Pennsylvania. Either the whole Eastern time zone down south goes, or no one does. It can't work any other way. 

So it looks like we'll get to keep our late sunsets after all. 

     Thread Starter
 

November 26, 2020 2:12 pm  #18


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

New York keeps rejecting the idea.
They'll just keep rejecting.
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.
 
 

November 26, 2020 2:13 pm  #19


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Hold on a second. It seems I may have been right after all. A CBC headline says exactly the opposite from the one I originally posted. That's what I first thought. Durham Radio News got it wrong in the way they phrased it. I should have picked a better example like the one below. 

Ontario to move permanently to daylight savings time as long as Quebec, New York follow

RadioWiz is right. We're at their mercy, not vice versa. I remember when the U.S. moved to institute daylight savings time early as an energy saving measure. Ontario was forced to follow suit, simply because it would have made things too confusing on this side of the border.

So if they want to do it, we comply.

If we want to do it, they don't much care. 

     Thread Starter
 

November 26, 2020 2:18 pm  #20


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

RadioActive wrote:

Hold on a second. It seems I may have been right after all. A CBC headline says exactly the opposite from the one I originally posted. That's what I first thought. 

Ontario to move permanently to daylight savings time as long as Quebec, New York follow

In that case you'd be right.  I can only respond to what you posted
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

November 26, 2020 2:38 pm  #21


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

RadioActive wrote:

This is probably never going to become law, but the question has to be asked: what would happen to TV in this province if it did? And would it mean the end of most simultaneous substitution as we know it?
 
Global News’ lead story on Sunday was about a Conservative MPPs private member’s bill to keep Ontario on Daylight Saving Time all year long.

The complications that would ensue if this thing were to pass are immense and one of the most immediate impacts would be on primetime television in this province.
 
Consider:
 
We would keep our time the same in November, while the U.S. falls back to Standard Time. That means when it's 8 PM here, it’s only 7 o’clock across the border. As most here know, simsub is the practice of blacking out the U.S. signal in favour of the Canadian one, when both are carrying the same show at the same time.
 
But if the suggested change came to be, primetime in the U.S. wouldn’t start until 9 PM our time. That means no simsub for the first hour of primetime, presuming we still start our network shows at 8 o’clock.
 
They could reschedule everything from 9-11 PM and blackout the signal as normal, but what happens to the all important 11 PM news? It would only be 10 PM in the U.S., when popular shows like The Good Doctor or Chicago P.D. air down there. Stations here could choose to delay their newscasts to midnight to keep simsub active. But that would be crazy and destroy their ratings. Who’s staying up to 12:30 or 1 AM to watch the nightly news?
 
Or they could air some shows early at 8 o’clock, but then they still lose the simsub advantage.
 
And what happens to all those syndicated shows, like Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy and Entertainment Tonight that were purchased specifically to fill the 7-8 PM time slots and run concurrently with U.S. stations for more simsub opportunities?  
 
It’s a head spinning mess and the only answer seems to be to forget about simsub for at least two of those all important primetime hours. And it would almost certainly destroy the whole point of substituting the signals in the first place.
 
As noted, I will be very surprised if this ever happens. But if it did, I can only wonder how much the TV landscape would have to change for at least half a year in this province. And there’s no doubt local TV stations here would be totally against it.

This is already being done in Alberta and the Maritime provinces 365 days a year. They simsub to US stations in earlier time zones (Alberta (MT) with Spokane, WA (PT), Maritimes (AT) with Boston (ET)). Sometimes whatever airs at 10 PM on the American network gets aired at 8 PM on the Canadian network. Wheel & Jeopardy air at 7 PM on Yes TV in Alberta, 8 PM on the American stations, etc. We still get local news at 11 PM, though we used to have news at 10 PM on some stations. Those went away when the TV stations realized the simsub was more lucrative than local news. 

In any event, it all works out. 

Last edited by ED1 (November 26, 2020 2:39 pm)

 

November 29, 2020 2:24 am  #22


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

Jody Thornton wrote:

Why doesn't the whole Eastern Time Zone in North America just stay on Daylight Savings Time?  It would even be odd having different times for Orlando, Florida and Toronto, Ontario
 

AMEN !!!!


When the hand goes up, the mouth goes shut !
~ Harvey Atkin
 

November 29, 2020 2:48 am  #23


Re: Could This Partially Destroy Simsub In Ontario?

RadioActive wrote:

RadioWiz is right. We're at their mercy, not vice versa. I remember when the U.S. moved to institute daylight savings time early as an energy saving measure. Ontario was forced to follow suit, simply because it would have made things too confusing on this side of the border.
So if they want to do it, we comply.
If we want to do it, they don't much care. 

Thank-you.


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.