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March 11, 2020 2:28 pm  #2


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Turns out it's one of Bell Media's companies that's bringing it to Canada.

Orbyt, Premiere to Distribute The Breakfast Club in Canada
 

 

March 12, 2020 8:02 am  #3


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

This is a shame. I really enjoyed flows morning show. Seems like a new show is being cancelled every week now. Sad state of affairs.

 

March 12, 2020 9:00 am  #4


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

The old morning show moves to afternoon drive...   

 

March 16, 2020 7:13 am  #5


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

....aaaaand they've backed off, at least for now. Blake and Peter Kash back on this morning, all references to Breakfast club online and social are scrubbed.


 
 

March 16, 2020 10:00 am  #6


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

I think Stingray just learned a little lesson. Pretty hard to do a local radio show in the middle of a health crisis if your morning program is syndicated out of New York.  Don't imagine "The Breakfast Club" would be directing people what was open or closed in Toronto, or advise or inform their listeners what the city was planning.. When all of this is over with, I am sure "The Breakfast Club" will come to FLOW 93.5.  If they had premiered the new program this morning or this week, FLOW and the new morning crew would be dead in the water.

All radio stations, regardless of format, are still a service to the public during times like this. 

 

March 16, 2020 8:21 pm  #7


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

It was, in fact, the virus that kept them alive in the morning. 

From Broadcast Dialogue: 

“Peter Kash and Blake Carter, the previous morning team on Flow 93.5, have graciously agreed to delay their move to afternoons so that Flow can remain local during the COVID-19 crisis,” said Steve Jones, in an email. “We will launch The Breakfast Club once the crisis has passed, and Blake & Peter will move to afternoons.”

But given the nature of this unprecedented emergency, that move may well be a ways off. 

Stingray delays Flow 93.5’s transition to U.S. morning show amid COVID-19 crisis

 

March 16, 2020 8:43 pm  #8


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

RadioActive wrote:

It was, in fact, the virus that kept them alive in the morning. 

From Broadcast Dialogue: 

“Peter Kash and Blake Carter, the previous morning team on Flow 93.5, have graciously agreed to delay their move to afternoons so that Flow can remain local during the COVID-19 crisis,” said Steve Jones, in an email. “We will launch The Breakfast Club once the crisis has passed, and Blake & Peter will move to afternoons.”

But given the nature of this unprecedented emergency, that move may well be a ways off. 

Stingray delays Flow 93.5’s transition to U.S. morning show amid COVID-19 crisis

Kind of ridiculous.  stingray recognizes the need and importance of local radio, yet they're still prepared to abandon it at the earliest possible moment after this current crisis is over.  That's embarrassing for so many people on so many levels.

 

March 17, 2020 8:04 pm  #9


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

They're not just keeping the local Flow morning show.
I also noticed on sister station Boom that there is suddenly a Stingray newsroom this evening.  

Last edited by Radiowiz (March 17, 2020 8:08 pm)

 

March 17, 2020 8:08 pm  #10


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Radiowiz wrote:

They're not just keeping the Flow morning show local. I noticed on sister station Boom that there is suddenly a Stingray newsroom this evening. 

It's for the current news event. I've heard the same on Rogers and Corus stations across the country. 24/7 hourly updates on every station.


 
 

March 17, 2020 8:09 pm  #11


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

RadioAaron wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

They're not just keeping the Flow morning show local. I noticed on sister station Boom that there is suddenly a Stingray newsroom this evening. 

It's for the current news event. I've heard the same on Rogers and Corus stations across the country. 24/7 hourly updates on every station.

It gives credit to the "Stingray news room" so I wondered where in Canada this was coming from.

 

March 17, 2020 9:09 pm  #12


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

I don't know if this will work unless it's edited down.  US politics come up pretty often on the local New York version of the show.

 

March 17, 2020 9:20 pm  #13


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

They're not just keeping the Flow morning show local. I noticed on sister station Boom that there is suddenly a Stingray newsroom this evening. 

It's for the current news event. I've heard the same on Rogers and Corus stations across the country. 24/7 hourly updates on every station.

It gives credit to the "Stingray news room" so I wondered where in Canada this was coming from.

Yeah, Rogers' seems to be coming from 680 or 1130 Vancouver, and Corus' are coming from Global Toronto. Haven't heard the Stingray updates, but they don't have obvious news hubs like the other guys do.
 


 
 

March 17, 2020 11:10 pm  #14


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

RadioAaron wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioAaron wrote:


It's for the current news event. I've heard the same on Rogers and Corus stations across the country. 24/7 hourly updates on every station.

It gives credit to the "Stingray news room" so I wondered where in Canada this was coming from.

Yeah, Rogers' seems to be coming from 680 or 1130 Vancouver, and Corus' are coming from Global Toronto. Haven't heard the Stingray updates, but they don't have obvious news hubs like the other guys do.
 

...and that's why I suspect that the "Stingray newsroom" is actually Canada Press...but I didn't want to assume.

 

March 20, 2020 6:40 am  #15


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

...and that's why I suspect that the "Stingray newsroom" is actually Canada Press...but I didn't want to assume.

The "Stingray Newsroom" is a collective of broadcastors in the Stingray media chain of radio stations updating our markets nationally, every hour. So, basically... it's Canada wide on Stingray radio stations by Stingray employees.

 

May 14, 2020 6:58 am  #16


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Confirmed on the Facebook of Flow 93.5, The Breakfast Club from New York will officially start on May 19, with the current breakfast host Blake Carter & Peter Kash moving to afternoon hours. Even though the COVID-19 situation still hasn’t been over, Stingray seems to be more than eager to make the unpopular change. Their Facebook likes are decreasing at a fast rate as what I’ve observed...

Even I assume most of the people are not liking hip hop music on this forum, I have noticed some changes on the playlist of Flow 93.5 since April. Some CHR songs that aren’t supposed to be on Flow 93.5 did appear, for example Growing Pains by Alessia Cara and Havana by Camila Cabello, even though mainstream hip hop artists continue to be the staple of Flow.

They aren’t doing a good job in supporting Toronto hip hop artists as well, as a lot of new releases from Drake, Tory Lanez and NAV aren’t being played on the station. (Even though most of you won’t be into their music) As the only Canadian hip hop station, they should support the local hip hop industry, not playing songs that can be listened on Kiss 92.5 and Virgin Radio all the time.

 

May 14, 2020 7:59 am  #17


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Adrian106072 wrote:

 As the only Canadian hip hop station, they should support the local hip hop industry, not playing songs that can be listened on Kiss 92.5 and Virgin Radio all the time.

Element 106.5 has somehow gotten away with positioning themselves as Hip Hop & Pop. 
They play better Hip Hop than Flow, but then a true Hip Hop fan has to sit through all that pop in between. 
(& Maybe that's okay...maybe they like the pop that's thrown in?) 


 

 

May 14, 2020 8:22 pm  #18


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Radiowiz wrote:

Adrian106072 wrote:

 As the only Canadian hip hop station, they should support the local hip hop industry, not playing songs that can be listened on Kiss 92.5 and Virgin Radio all the time.

Element 106.5 has somehow gotten away with positioning themselves as Hip Hop & Pop. 
They play better Hip Hop than Flow, but then a true Hip Hop fan has to sit through all that pop in between. 
(& Maybe that's okay...maybe they like the pop that's thrown in?) 


 

 
Elmnt fm is still predominantly promoting its indigenous identity, their music has to be diversified in order to attract a varied number of listeners. The hip hop music being played on 106.5 are mainly indigenous hip hop and alternative cuts, so ‘real’ hip hop fans might accept it more. (Ratings are dismal for the station though...) CIUT also has a few time slots dedicated to hip hop music, mainly alternative hip hop. Flow 93.5 brands itself as the premier Canadian hip hop station, yet they hired American hosts, adding an unreasonable amount of ‘CHR’ music into their playlist, and lacks providing support for Canadian hip hop artists. The situation before March was way better on Flow, however after they fired hosts such as Mastermind and Ace West everything has fallen part. They need to look for another formula instead of the current one.

 

May 14, 2020 8:41 pm  #19


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Adrian106072 wrote:

 They need to look for another formula instead of the current one.

More purely hip-hop ins't the answer. Toronto has no history with the format, and the audience that Toronto radio never cared for doesn't care for radio. That ship's sailed. It will never work.

A rhythmic CHR *might*, but even that's a long-shot.


 


 
 

May 15, 2020 5:37 am  #20


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

RadioAaron wrote:

Adrian106072 wrote:

 They need to look for another formula instead of the current one.

A rhythmic CHR *might*, but even that's a long-shot.
 

Kiss 92 went from being a Country station under Rawlco communications ownership, to being sold to Rogers.
Rogers switched to CHR radio. THAT had ratings. 
Some clown decided to go Rythmic CHR.  It failed miserably, so they went Jack FM.
When they flushed Jack FM out, they went back to being a CHR station.

Rythmic CHR does not work in the Toronto market.
Rythmic Variety might, ("Today and back in the day" Rythmic CHR) 
but that too is a long shot...
 

 

May 15, 2020 7:09 am  #21


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

RadioAaron wrote:

Adrian106072 wrote:

 They need to look for another formula instead of the current one.

More purely hip-hop ins't the answer. Toronto has no history with the format, and the audience that Toronto radio never cared for doesn't care for radio. That ship's sailed. It will never work.

A rhythmic CHR *might*, but even that's a long-shot.


 

 
What I actually mean by ‘formula’ is indeed the stability in keeping the same host and breakfast show for Flow, also playing music that are not overlapping with current stations in Toronto. We all know that the rhythmic CHR won’t really work for Flow, as Z103.5 is already doing so. What Z does is they have a variety of dance, urban, throwbacks and other hit songs mixed in the playlist. Therefore Flow shouldn’t copy what they are doing.

Even a lot of youngsters are using Spotify and other online music platforms for music they like, for instance hip hop and urban music. Flow should still remain a strong support for such genre, as Canadian hip hop artists are dominating the charts worldwide for now. Therefore hip hop doesn’t equal to failure, as long as Flow can incorporate the formula that I’ve suggested.

 

May 15, 2020 8:20 am  #22


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

I will fully admit my ignorance on this, but I have to ask this uninformed question: has a syndicated U.S. morning radio show ever improved ratings for a single station in Canada?
 
I’m not sure it’s happened, with the most famous example being the great Howard Stern/Q107 experiment back in 1997. Despite all the hype, the self-proclaimed King of All Media quickly abdicated his Canadian throne and disappeared back across the border.
 
I’m not talking about overnights, where Coast-to-Coast ruled before COVID came to town, and which most stations just want to program with something a smaller audience might actually listen to that’s cheap to air. Or those who host a truly local effort remotely from another city.
 
I’m talking about what is inarguably the most important spot in all of radio, morning drive. Do you really want to turn it over to someone thousands of miles away in another country, who won’t talk about local news, give you the weather, comment on some pressing issue and especially now, give you the latest on how the pandemic is affecting your city?
 
Plus, won’t a U.S. show, even one that concentrates on hip hop or other forms of music, eventually have to talk about the Orange One in the White House? How will that play on a regular basis with Toronto teens or whoever the target audience might be for the imported show? And what about CanCon rules?
 
I guess Flow is getting a real bargain here – a morning show, hosted by proven talent, that doesn’t cost them all that much in the end, and saves the big salaries they’d have to pay for local talent.
 
But I can’t help but wonder if it’s ever worked here – or if it ever will.

 

May 15, 2020 11:55 am  #23


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Flow 93.5 is not a station I have listened to a lot, largely since it's signal in K/W is not the greatest and the fact I am not part of their demographic age wise. However being a music lover I can and do appreciate and yes like some aspects of hip hop and urban music.
 
From a programming point of view one constant in Flow's history seems to be the almost continual tweaking or modifying of the format and music. In addition the various changes of ownership have brought adjustments in  presentation, station imaging, and general sound of the station. It could be that Flow has been confusing listeners as to what kind of station it is trying to be.

Across the lake in Buffalo WBLK is America's oldest urban radio station and normally is #1 in the ratings.  I remember WBLK being well accepted in Buffalo in the late 70's and all through the 80's and 90's so they have a long and successful track record as a popular station. In areas of Southern Ontario and Toronto where WBLK has a good signal, do they make any impact, or are they popular?  I have no idea, does anyone know?

Drake has been the world's  biggest artist or one of the most popular for a long time now, he lives here and raps about Toronto all the time.  And regardless whether you like his music or not, he has given the city and Canadian urban music millions and millions (probably billions) in free promotion and more important, credibility with his music, videos, concerts, even his relationship with the Raptors.  And sadly as is the norm, Canadian hip hop and urban artists including Drake and the Weeknd seem to be more readily accepted,supported, appreciated by radio and media outside of Canada.

So it is odd that Flow can't seem find itself and do a bit better in the ratings.  They don't have a lot of radio competition and an affluent market the size of the GTA should be able to easily support a couple of commercial urban or hip hop radio stations. Other markets much smaller in the US do, so I don't know why it doesn't happen in Toronto.

My understand also is that there are many new Canadian hip hop and urban artists that are getting airplay south of the border, so it shouldn't be a question of lack of local talent since many of these new artists still choose to live, and record here. 

 

Last edited by paterson1 (May 15, 2020 11:57 am)

 

May 22, 2020 9:23 am  #24


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Listened to some of the Breakfast Club this morning on Flow 93.5. What I heard was a bit different than I was expecting. They bill themselves as "The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show.."
  
The good- What I heard on the show was not a "giggle fest" which a lot syndicated morning shows tend to be.   Brooke and Jeffery on JUMP FM in Ottawa, the laughter never stops and everything is funny apparently.   The Breakfast Club which features the trio Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Yee and DJ Envy, gets into fairly heavy topics for a youth oriented morning show like what does it mean to be a man and also heard part of an interview with Democratic Presidential hopeful Joe Biden.

The Bad- Even though the station is called Flow, this show didn't have any. Like Brooke and Jeffery all of the breaks sound pre-recorded and not live. The music seems separate from the hosts and they don't talk about the music, other than what DJ Envy might play. And often he seems to only play about a minute or so of songs.

The commercial breaks are confusing and Flow seems to play filler music into the next segment. Likely the commercial breaks are a lot longer at the home station in NYC and Flow uses music to time out to the next break. Even within the show however the music sounds disjointed and choppy. Also the audio quality of the Breakfast Club segments are not as clear as the music and local breaks. The Breakfast Club inserts sound like satellite feeds, more processed and the audio quality not as sharp.

In terms of music, I don't imagine cancon will be much of a problem since from 6 to 9am The Breakfast Club only played 13 songs. And since the music seems to be a bit of a sideline on the show, Flow can put in their own cuts and the listener wouldn't know the difference. Only the traffic, and weather breaks sounded live which were back in the studio in Toronto.

After 9am they did play a  more music, but still had a fair bit of talk with "Donkey of the Day" which is audio clips and comments of Americans doing outrageous and stupid things.  One lady was kissing everyone she could in a bar even though customers were to keep their distance during COVID-19. Near the end of the show they were promoting the Positive Note which was to come up but I didn't hear anything, just some music and into the next show.  

Anyway the segments I heard of The Breakfast Club were more serious than I expected, and the hosts did show another side to their personalities.  This show isn't geared for someone of my age and there is absolutely nothing about Toronto or local other than weather, commercials and traffic.  So if you want to hear about US politics, New York, and listen to show promos that say "It's the Breakfast Club.. Bitches!!" This show is for you, 

To be honest with you, Flow sounded better after 10am with a live announcer who was talking local and he sounded a lot more upbeat than the hosts of the Breakfast Club. Also Flow is trying to make their website very "Toronto" which I guess is to try and compensate for the lack of anything about the GTA from 6 to 10am.

 

May 22, 2020 10:04 am  #25


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

I still think syndicated U.S. morning shows will never really work in Canada, but I wish Flow luck with it. It may be saving them money, but I wonder if in the end it will lose them audience.

Having said that, they certainly picked a good week to start airing it after gaffe-prone Joe Biden created a big controversy with a final statement on the show, even as his aides desperately tried to repeatedly end the interview.

It's been making huge headlines across the States and may wind up hurting him in the long run. This isn't a political board, but it happened on the very show we're discussing here, so it seems worth noting that it was also heard in Canada on a radio station that may have a higher percentage of black listeners than others in the GTA. 

Biden to black Americans: If you have a problem figuring out if you’re for me or Trump, you ain’t black

 

May 22, 2020 4:14 pm  #26


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

In a strange interlude, Jim Richards played the Biden clip on his show Friday. When told by fellow host Jay Michaels that the show airs in Toronto now, Richards was taken by surprise. "Oh," he said. "I didn't know that."

It's not exactly going to send CFRB listeners to Flow, but you might have thought the host of a Toronto talk show would have been aware that the program Biden was on was currently airing on the competition.

Either way, an odd moment when one private radio station airs clips from another.

 

May 22, 2020 5:04 pm  #27


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

I heard Jim talk about this as well, and I thought to myself he doesn't know the show plays in Toronto. He was going on about what a "huge morning show" The Breakfast Club is in  the US and how it is in 90 markets. Nothing of course was said about the competition when he found out it is now carried in Toronto.

However in Canada this story hasn't had any legs so far. Maybe a few news sites might pick it up later but so far it is only sort of a thing in American media. So can't see it really doing anything for Flow.  The Breakfast Club is too new and nobody here is very aware of the show yet, and won't likely make the connection, even if it eventually gets some press here.

 

July 18, 2020 3:35 am  #28


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

The Breakfast Club isn't only the reason why people decided to give up Flow 93.5 after March,
the factor of music selection also drive away listeners who are dedicated to hip hop music. It makes me wonder why the new music director decided to add 'Coffee For Your Head' on a hip hop playlist just a few days ago. If I want to listen pop songs, I'd rather tune into Kiss 92.5 or Virgin Radio. The main reason urban format radio stations in GTA struggle to attract audience, is that the program directors don't acknowledge what the audience of urban radio want to listen, not because the format is unpopular.

 

July 18, 2020 1:52 pm  #29


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

Adrian106072 wrote:

The main reason urban format radio stations in GTA struggle to attract audience, is that the program directors don't acknowledge what the audience of urban radio want to listen, not because the format is unpopular.

Actually there is many reasons that stations like Flow have had issue making the official ratings go up... and one main reason is unlike the USA the ratings we get here are not making sure we cover key demographics.    Buffalo for example knows Latino, black and other key demographic numbers.   In Canada it's a crap shoot if you hit any key group but Caucasian.    The USA also offers bonus points in key demos as they are harder to get to be monitored.     In a market like Buffalo that is over 50% non-Caucasian, this will see huge spikes for WBLK vs WKSE.

For a station like FLOW doing Hip-Hop and R&B, in a city that is so multi-cultural, getting ratings is harder.  The samples can be nothing but Caucasian for all you know.   This is not providing the true make up of the market.     Typically Hip Hop and R&B focused stations rate well in focused key demos...    CHR-Rhythmic tends to score better with broad key demos. Ratings for Flow did go up for the period they focused on CHR-Rhythmic, but reacted to G987 coming into the market which reverted the ratings growth and they never got it back.

I think (know)  the audience is there... my argument is it's not being represented in the ratings system we have.   The system needs to be changed OR they may have to go with a broader focus format to get the numbers up and do it well.    I think this is why decisions got made in the past to flip the format, but ownership changes and a name with such history for sure held them back.  Some bad decisions as well trying to hold on to the past while being something new, didn't help.  

I also would argue they need to focus on sounding more like Toronto and not trying to be New York..   I've heard this from listeners and felt it myself.   Hip Hop/R&B formats do well when they focus locally 1st and sound like the local market.      At times I have always felt some hosts try to sound NEW YORK...    Toronto is not New York... Never will be..  

 

Last edited by radiokid (July 18, 2020 2:02 pm)

 

July 18, 2020 6:16 pm  #30


Re: New syndicated morning show flows into the 416

radiokid, right on. Excellent post,