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July 11, 2018 10:48 am  #1


Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Durham Radio: Grimsby and Frank Torres: Georgina.

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (July 11, 2018 10:49 am)

 

July 11, 2018 11:52 am  #2


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

https://media.giphy.com/media/32V6UqfX4ffHO/giphy.gif

 

July 11, 2018 3:55 pm  #3


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

It’s interesting who the CRTC picked.

Dufferin suggested an easy listening/AC format. That got turned down.

Byrnes also wanted oldies. They were nixed.
 
So why Durham? Because they already had a station in the Hamilton market, which would, in the words of the Commission decision, “provide it with the opportunity to benefit from important synergies so as to better compete with large established and consolidated multi-station players.”
 
Corus wanted them to be able to solicit advertising only from the Grimsby/Beamsville area (and by extension NOT Hamilton or its environs) an idea Durham called “catastrophic.” But the Commission disagreed, saying the signal would only barely reach into either Hamilton or St. Catharines, so it wasn’t a problem.
 
Frank Torres got yet another oldies outlet for a supposedly similar AC/Gold format, planned for 93.7 in Georgina. Why that selection? The Commission liked his business plan the best, saying the owner’s CIUX-FM in Uxbridge became profitable far sooner than expected and again noting something about “synergies.” Boy, they seem to love that word. 
 
Corus, which owns CHAY, once again objected to the newcomer trying to sell ads in Barrie. Torres’ response is classic. Check out this statement from the decision. “It has expended a great deal of resources and effort to ensure that its signal will serve the entire town of Georgina, and that its proposal does not constitute an attempt to enter the Barrie radio market through the “back door.”
 
Hmm, where have we heard that before?
 
It’s one of the few times I can remember MyFM getting squeezed out, since it’s had a lot of expertise establishing a successful beachhead in smaller markets. Jon Pole can’t be happy. Markham Radio’s proposal for an AC outlet was similarly dismissed.
 
While I doubt any of them will come in here, I find it interesting that, back in the days when the FM dial was more open, the CRTC never allowed an oldies station to get running on that band in the GTA. Boom 97.3 is the closest we’ve come, although their range of music pretty much ignores the 60s. (And you can’t really count Zoomer Radio’s repeater at 96.7, since it’s technically reproducing its AM 740 signal and doesn't reach the entire city.)
 
Toronto should have had an FM oldies station years ago, just like almost every other big city in Canada. But the CRTC seemed too worried about protecting the CHUMs and the CKOCs of the world. (The closest we came was the plan to swap CKEY’s 590 signal with CKO’s all news format at 99.1. But that never came to pass and neither station exists today.)   
 
So we never really got a true gold FM format in the largest market in Canada. Now both CHUM and CKOC are gone, CKDO barely gets here on either band and there’s no room for anything else. Want what’s known as “True Oldies” here? You either listen to a scratchy over the air distant or weak signal, or stream it over the web. Meaning the smaller markets are well served by something we never had and given today's demographics, will almost certainly never get now. 

 

July 11, 2018 4:32 pm  #4


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

 Jon Pole can’t be happy.

Good thing he has a 1-hour daily show on RB to vent?! But will he?
 

 

July 11, 2018 4:54 pm  #5


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

I'd say definitely not. Pole has frequently referred to being a "businessman" and having a side gig. He's also referred to the trials and tribulations of being a boss and dealing with sometimes recalcitrant employees. 

But to my knowledge, he's never come out and said exactly what that business is. So he's unlikely to promote a rival radio station now. Even one he didn't get.  

 

July 11, 2018 5:07 pm  #6


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Agreed. I still find it bizarre that the President/Owner of a competing broadcast company with multiple radio stations has a live show on one of its chief competitors. After all, RB comes in crystal clear in many of the MyFM/Oldies markets. I would assume most listeners of the aforementioned stations aren't actually aware of who their Prez is.

 

July 11, 2018 5:10 pm  #7


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

It's always struck me as odd, as well. Can you imagine the head of, say, Dufferin Communications, suddenly winding up with a nighttime show on AM 640? Very weird arrangement, but to give him credit, he's a real pro and he pulls it off.  

 

July 11, 2018 5:14 pm  #8


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

This classic hits format for the Grimsby/Beamsville station will definitely impact the proposed AM 1220 from St. Catharines - if it ever gets on the air. I think they were planning the same format.

Last edited by andysradio (July 11, 2018 5:15 pm)

 

July 11, 2018 5:15 pm  #9


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

That said, I recently saw Supriya Dwivedi(sp) from GLOBAL News Radio on the CBC as a panelist. (not sure if she was sitting on Her Pillow.)

 

July 11, 2018 5:18 pm  #10


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

andysradio wrote:

This classic hits format for the Grimsby/Beamsville station will definitely impact the proposed AM 1220 from St. Catharines - if it ever gets on the air. I think they were planning the same format.

It's a case of AM vs FM and all the Tx issues that come with AM sticks. I doubt anyone on the Grimsville side is biting their toenails anytime soon.
 

 

July 11, 2018 5:31 pm  #11


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

Toronto should have had an FM oldies station years ago, just like almost every other big city in Canada. But the CRTC seemed too worried about protecting the CHUMs and the CKOCs of the world. (The closest we came was the plan to swap CKEY’s 590 signal with CKO’s all news format at 99.1. But that never came to pass and neither station exists today.)   
 
So we never really got a true gold FM format in the largest market in Canada. Now both CHUM and CKOC are gone, CKDO barely gets here on either band and there’s no room for anything else. Want what’s known as “True Oldies” here? You either listen to a scratchy over the air distant or weak signal, or stream it over the web. Meaning the smaller markets are well served by something we never had and given today's demographics, will almost certainly never get now. 

I can't think of a single "Oldies" FM station in a big market currently. Even in the last 15 years, the closest we got was Capital Edmonton, XL Calgary, and FAB Winnipeg, but they all moved on to Classic Hits pretty quickly. Not sure I can name an FM oldies station in a smaller market either. Even MYfm's "Oldies" branded stations have almost exactly the same era composition as Boom.

The period bewteen it being allowed (end of non-hit) and it no longer being demographically viable turned out to be pretty short.

Last edited by Don (July 11, 2018 5:33 pm)

 

July 11, 2018 5:50 pm  #12


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

I was actually referring to a time in the 80s and 90s, when 60s music had something of a renaissance, and just as FM was starting its ascendance. I believe there were several attempts at trying to get an oldies FM station in Toronto, but the CRTC's rules prevented it. 

In more modern times, the numbers just don't work, with Baby Boomers seen as a dwindling audience. But it might have been a hit had it been attempted here back then. We'll never know.  

 

July 11, 2018 5:54 pm  #13


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Curious what the FM stations were outside of Toronto in the 80s and 90s would have really been oldies? There was certainly a good amount of 60s music on AC at the time, but the non-hit rule made a true full-time Oldies station practically impossible. 

 

July 11, 2018 6:20 pm  #14


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

I was actually referring to a time in the 80s and 90s, when 60s music had something of a renaissance, and just as FM was starting its ascendance. I believe there were several attempts at trying to get an oldies FM station in Toronto, but the CRTC's rules prevented it. 
 

FM 108 (CING) came in pretty strong in Toronto...49% non hit rule and all.  

 

 

July 11, 2018 7:04 pm  #15


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Yes, I thought of them, but I don't think they were oldies full time were they? It's the same reason I don't really consider AM 740 a permanent oldies station. You can't run talk shows, informercials, a conspiracy show, old time radio, travel programs, a big band showcase and more and still be considered a full time anything. 

But FM 108 may have been as close as we ever got to an oldies station in this area. Again worth noting, not licenced to Toronto.  

 

July 11, 2018 7:46 pm  #16


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Don wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

Toronto should have had an FM oldies station years ago, just like almost every other big city in Canada. But the CRTC seemed too worried about protecting the CHUMs and the CKOCs of the world. (The closest we came was the plan to swap CKEY’s 590 signal with CKO’s all news format at 99.1. But that never came to pass and neither station exists today.)   
 
So we never really got a true gold FM format in the largest market in Canada. Now both CHUM and CKOC are gone, CKDO barely gets here on either band and there’s no room for anything else. Want what’s known as “True Oldies” here? You either listen to a scratchy over the air distant or weak signal, or stream it over the web. Meaning the smaller markets are well served by something we never had and given today's demographics, will almost certainly never get now. 

I can't think of a single "Oldies" FM station in a big market currently. Even in the last 15 years, the closest we got was Capital Edmonton, XL Calgary, and FAB Winnipeg, but they all moved on to Classic Hits pretty quickly. Not sure I can name an FM oldies station in a smaller market either. Even MYfm's "Oldies" branded stations have almost exactly the same era composition as Boom.

The period bewteen it being allowed (end of non-hit) and it no longer being demographically viable turned out to be pretty short.

Try finding an FM Oldies station in a major US market. 

 

July 11, 2018 7:51 pm  #17


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

@RA, don't know where you get the idea Byrnes was "oldies", since they proposed a younger format skew than Durham, mostly 80s.  In fact, Durham requested and was granted a 30% CanCon for 90% of selections prior to 1981.

As for the solicitation in Hamilton, the CRTC rarely grants such preventative measures, since it creates a "competitive imbalance" between stations.

 

July 11, 2018 7:58 pm  #18


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

splunge wrote:

@RA, don't know where you get the idea Byrnes was "oldies", since they proposed a younger format skew than Durham, mostly 80s.  In fact, Durham requested and was granted a 30% CanCon for 90% of selections prior to 1981.

The CRTC published the proposed formats when the applicants were announced.

Under Byrnes' plan was this:

"The applicant proposes a Classic Hits music format."

I always associate Classic Hits with oldies, but it's possible it could skew to a different age group. 

Byrnes Proposal to CRTC

 

July 11, 2018 8:16 pm  #19


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

splunge wrote:

@RA, don't know where you get the idea Byrnes was "oldies", since they proposed a younger format skew than Durham, mostly 80s.  In fact, Durham requested and was granted a 30% CanCon for 90% of selections prior to 1981.

The CRTC published the proposed formats when the applicants were announced.

Under Byrnes' plan was this:

"The applicant proposes a Classic Hits music format."

I always associate Classic Hits with oldies, but it's possible it could skew to a different age group. 

Byrnes Proposal to CRTC

Fair enough, but Classic Hits tends to lean toward 70s and 80s onward these days, vs "oldies" or "gold". pre- 1970ish.

 

July 11, 2018 9:14 pm  #20


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

I always associate Classic Hits with oldies, but it's possible it could skew to a different age group. 

Oh in that case, how could you forget the late great ZED 97 point 3??? "Toronto's...CLASSIC...hits"?

 

July 12, 2018 9:22 am  #21


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

I am regularly turned to Power FM 93.7, Buffalo NY up Hwy 400 to Hwy 89, then west toward Cookstown where Country 93 (FM 93.7 Owen Sound) takes over, north from Cookstown, through Thornton to Georgian Bay.   Signal generally strong from both.   It will be interesting to hear how the Georgina signal deals with this

 

July 13, 2018 7:26 am  #22


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Canadian Radio News confirms the new Grimsby station's calls will be CKLK on 88.5 with 4,000 watts.

Torres' outlet in Georgina will be CKOU at 93.7. Power will be 26,000 watts. 

 

July 13, 2018 7:37 am  #23


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Radiowiz wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

I was actually referring to a time in the 80s and 90s, when 60s music had something of a renaissance, and just as FM was starting its ascendance. I believe there were several attempts at trying to get an oldies FM station in Toronto, but the CRTC's rules prevented it. 
 

FM 108 (CING) came in pretty strong in Toronto...49% non hit rule and all. 

Actually, I just remembered another one now long gone - Vinyl 95.3 from Corus Hamilton. It didn't have a very long run (Jan. 2010- April 2013) before flipping to Fresh FM. They weren't based in T.O., either, but it puts a near-perfect signal into the city. I liked what Vinyl was trying to do. I understand the reason for the flip, but I still miss that format. 

 

July 14, 2018 2:59 am  #24


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Chuck99 wrote:

At 26000 watts, the CKOU signal should prevent interference in its broadcast area from other stations using 93.7. 

What happens in a situation where The Move 93five is bleeding into 93.7?  Or is Georgina far enough away?
 

 

July 14, 2018 1:40 pm  #25


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

It's CKOU's other neighbor up the dial that I'm curious about.

     Thread Starter
 

July 18, 2018 2:22 pm  #26


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

I'd imagine the pirate will be asked to find another channel ;-)
 

 

October 18, 2019 12:36 pm  #27


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

The game of musical transmitters never seems to end. On the same day the CRTC approved Radio Humsafar's request to change its transmitter site, it also granted the same favour to the still not-on-the-air Frank Torres station in Georgina. CKOU-FM also got a power boost from 26,000 watts to 39,000. The station has an on-air deadline of July 11, 2020, although the CRTC says the technical changes must be completed by October 19, 2021, which I suppose means they already have an extension. 

After viewing the history of CKNT and Radio Humsafar, we've seen that those broadcast debut dates don't really have a lot of meaning anymore. 

CRTC Decision

 

October 18, 2019 2:09 pm  #28


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

RadioActive wrote:

CKOU-FM also got a power boost from 26,000 watts to 39,000

Note this power increase will have no practical impact on coverage. It is merely to offset changes in other operating parameters.

     Thread Starter
 

January 12, 2020 10:01 pm  #29


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

Who can I contact about an on-air job with the Grimsby station? I have a diploma in Journalism, and would be interested in News or an announcer shift.

 

January 12, 2020 11:00 pm  #30


Re: Georgina and Grimsby Get New FM Stations

It is not on the Air and not even approved for the technical changes. Might ne a while yet before they broadcast.