The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » "Law & Order: Toronto" Unveils An All Canadian Cast

RadioActive · October 16, 2023 8:40 am

It may be one of the few shows that will actually get made this season, as the actors' strike continues to grind on in Hollywood. City TV hopes to debut the 10-episode series in the spring.

Like the U.S version of L&O, where New York is almost one of the characters in the show, the Canuck copy will be entirely shot on the streets of the GTA. Which brings up an issue from one of the producers that had me laughing out loud.

“The biggest production challenge is probably construction — Toronto is a construction zone,” she says. “So that has been one of our more exciting challenges to try and overcome.”

Yep. Perhaps traffic in the city is the biggest crime they'll have to confront. But I doubt even the detectives will be able to solve that one!

‘Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent’ Announces Cast on First Original International Franchise Adaptation

John D · October 16, 2023 9:27 am

As a Law & Order lover, I am really looking forward to this Canadian production.

RadioActive · October 16, 2023 9:40 am

Interestingly, all the publicity about this series has so far failed to really mention that instead of the original "Law & Order" everyone is familiar with, this one is called "Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent." It's based on the U.S. version of "L&O: Criminal Intent" that starred Vincent D'Onofrio as a very eccentric detective and Katherine Erbe as his long suffering but understanding partner.

The reason I note that is that "Criminal Intent" was one of the L&O spinoffs that was ultimately cancelled by NBC. It means viewers shouldn't be expecting to see it follow the original mothership, but perhaps more closely hew to the lesser known and long cancelled version.

One last note - D'Onofrio himself is calling on NBC to revive his old show, and would like to be reteamed with Erbe. There's absolutely no indication at the moment that the network has any intention of doing that. So for fans of that spin-off, "Toronto" may be the only one they get.

Rogers "Law & Order" Press Release

BowmanvilleBob · October 16, 2023 9:47 am

I think the larger question should be how realistic the series will be in the context of Canadian law. How will they address the differences between Canadian law and American law? In Canada, we have a unified Criminal Code that covers all provinces, where U.S. law often varies from state to state. There's also no equivalent law in Canada to the U.S. Fifth Amendment (self-incrimination). If, as I suspect, the show is designed more for export than domestic consumption, will American viewers be able to pick up on references to Toronto neighbourhoods? Hopefully, this series won't be another version of "Flashpoint", which was allegedly set in Toronto but only made casual references to the city, which could be edited out to make it seem like it took place in a generic American city.

tvguy · October 16, 2023 10:13 am

Perhaps the L&O detectives and prosecutors can bring the perpetrators of the mis-managed Cross Town LRT project to justice. Just Sayin.

Glen Warren · October 16, 2023 10:21 am

tvguy wrote:
Perhaps the L&O detectives and prosecutors can bring the perpetrators of the mis-managed Cross Town LRT project to justice. Just Sayin.

NEVER ... they'll just cut a smooth deal with the Crown Prosecutor's office....

and scene...

roll credits...

newsguy1 · October 16, 2023 10:21 am

I really hope this show is good, but I can already see how it could be lampooned a la Second City.
"Where did you arrest the perp Sarge?"
We got him at the C-N Tower".
"I knew it, the C-N Tower!"
Hey now that we've solved the case what do you want to do?"
"How about lunch at the C-N Tower?"

paterson1 · October 16, 2023 10:26 am

I am looking forward to this and I am sure there will be no doubt where the show is filmed or the content. People see what they want to see. When Flashpoint was on US television, I remember reading various American revues of the show commenting how Canadian it was, and how the police didn't react and interact like most US procedural programs.

Never heard that Flashpoint was edited for a US audience. Anything I read on the show always mentioned that it was set in Toronto, and that it was an import Canadian drama. If anything they had too many aerial shots of the city and CN Tower.

Coroner played for years on CW and was based on Canadian law. CW scheduled the whole series to reasonable ratings. I have a feeling Law and Order Toronto will make most of it's sales internationally and not so much in the US.

BowmanvilleBob · October 16, 2023 10:54 am

I knew people who were involved with "Flashpoint" who told me about the editing. There were references to specific Toronto neighbourhoods such as Woodbridge that were edited out for export, simply because they had no meaning to people outside the GTA/Southern Ontario. I'm sure American critics viewed the show as "Canadian" simply because the cops didn't come blazing into every threatening situation with lethal force.

I believe it was the late Roger Ebert who first complained back in the 1990s about the number of American movies he'd seen where Toronto was asked to stand-in for an unnamed American metropolis. He pointed out that Toronto was beautiful and shouldn't have to serve as a proxy for the U.S. Either that, he said, or movies that are set in American cities should actually be filmed there.

For me, the question is simple - in a country with 40 million people, including thousands of talented actors, writers, technical crews and some of the most compelling urban environments and breathtaking scenery in the world, why do our broadcasters think the only avenue to success is to provide slightly watered down versions of U.S. programming?

newsguy1 · October 16, 2023 11:05 am

In downtown Toronto around where I worked they were always filming American movies and TV shows.
They would always "Americanize" the streets by covering up any signs that seemed too Canadian {like maple leaf logos or the word royal."
One time I laughed as Toronto locals were putting mail into mock up U-S mail boxes and the film crew had to stop them.
This despite that the boxes were blue with an eagle on them.
Another time a film crew mocked up a restaurant in an empty space.
It looked so realistic that Toronto people going for lunch lined up outside of it to get into the "new" restaurant.
The power of the movies.

paterson1 · October 16, 2023 11:39 am

Well, all I know is that I watched Flashpoint various times on CBS with no simsub and there were street references with names like Bloor and Albion Rd. I distinctly remember the Canadian flag shown various times on the outside of a building. So why they would edit out a name like Woodbridge is beyond me and totally pointless. It doesn't matter in a drama if everyone recognizes a street name or part of town.

Yes for a movie or TV show shot here they will Americanize the street if it is supposed to be happening in a US city. This still happens all of the time. But with Flashpoint when they would show the skyline from time to time with the CN Tower and Ontario Place most would recognize that it is Toronto.

And what is very interesting and significant, last Thursday evening on US OTA television, of the 14 shows shown in prime time on the five main networks, five were Canadian shows or about 35%. Granted four of them were on CW, but all of the shows were set in Canada and scheduled on US prime time TV.

Strike or no strike, who would ever have thought that in mid October on a Thursday evening that 35% of the shows on US OTA TV in prime time would be cancon, and set right here.

BowmanvilleBob · October 16, 2023 11:51 am

paterson1 wrote:
And what is very interesting and significant, last Thursday evening on US OTA television, of the 14 shows shown in prime time on the five main networks, five were Canadian shows or about 35%. Granted four of them were on CW, but all of the shows were set in Canada and scheduled on US prime time TV.

"Hey, our elite hockey team of university-aged players won four out of five games we played last week. Granted, four of the victories were against teams of 11-year olds, but nonetheless, a significant achievement."

betaylored · October 16, 2023 12:33 pm

Tassie Cameron, the showrunner for Rookie Blue is heading up this new Law and Order so it could be good.

Not really wowed with the casting choices so far tho and there's no mention of any veteran actor/fan favorite (like a Victor Garber) to anchor the characters and draw in viewers.

Unless there's a breakout star or the writers are above average and can avoid the tired storylines law shows regularly regurgitate it could have a limited run.

paterson1 · October 16, 2023 3:11 pm

BowmanvilleBob wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
And what is very interesting and significant, last Thursday evening on US OTA television, of the 14 shows shown in prime time on the five main networks, five were Canadian shows or about 35%. Granted four of them were on CW, but all of the shows were set in Canada and scheduled on US prime time TV.
"Hey, our elite hockey team of university-aged players won four out of five games we played last week. Granted, four of the victories were against teams of 11-year olds, but nonetheless, a significant achievement."

The point is that currently more Canadian programming is shown in the US and around the world than ever before. And the most successful of these shows are actually set in Canada. Being set in Canada doesn't mean that you are always talking about Canadian landmarks, things, politics or whatever. That is not what the programs are about. It means that the scripts themselves are usually universal, and the situations are set in a Canadian location or city.

I see you are trying to trivialize what I mentioned about last Thursday prime time with a made up quote. Like I said, four of the five shows were on CW, a struggling network that is heavily relying on Canadian programming. It seems they are interested in partnering and having more.

Another US network called ION did the same thing 10-15 years ago. Today ION is in better shape financially. In fact ION's secondary network IONPlus shows a lot of older Canadian dramas like The Listener., Private Eyes, Republic of Doyle, Murdoch Mysteries and others. They are running the programming that the main network had years ago.

Like I said above, even with the current strike and settled writers strike, I never thought we would ever see so much Canadian programming running south of the border and internationally. And the vast majority actually set in Canadian locations.

BowmanvilleBob · October 16, 2023 3:43 pm

So you seriously think that when the SAG strike is over, these same struggling American networks and their larger counterparts will continue to embrace Canadian programming? If so, I've got a bridge in Burlington to sell you.

One thing that's often ignored in this whole debate is that much of the funding for these shows comes from you and me, the taxpayer, through tax credits offered by municipal, provincial and federal authorities. At least the CBC makes a pretense of making Canadian content the center of its lineup when they get their appropriations from Parliament. Is it wrong to expect that we get a relevant bang for our buck on the private networks in terms of telling our stories? Do you think it's right that the Property Brothers and Kortney Wilson get to claim these tax breaks to produce programs that feature them renovating people's homes in Nashville or Hollywood?

I can see that on this one, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Nevertheless, I hope you enjoy whatever it is you're watching these days.

paterson1 · October 16, 2023 4:33 pm

Tax credits happen all over the place. Most states, even California and NY have them for TV and film production. So I don't get twisted about it. I also don't get bent out of shape about cancon needing to be always filled with Canadian references or themes. HGTV has a Canadian home renovation show set in Hollywood? Good for them!

Not disputing that the strike had an impact. But for CW they were in trouble long before the strike. The network has new owners and are trying to make the operation profitable. CW has always run Canadian programming, they just have more now.

Also it is significant that their head of programming, Brad Schwartz is Canadian and cut his teeth at Much Music and MTV Canada. He was the executive that brought Schitts Creek to the US. So he is pretty in tune with what is going on here.

Transplant definitely benefited from the strike, and I doubt if they would have ever resurfaced on NBC if the dispute never happened. It has a great time slot now, but off to a so-so start. Whether it stays on the network for the entire season will depend if it can find a little larger audience. But let's face it the bar for prime time dramas on US network TV is pretty low and will be for months to come.

You know, I am not really watching much OTA TV other than news. Not into game shows much and find most of the dramas are too similar. Too many police and hospital themed shows. So I watch mostly news, sports, docs and the odd movie. Pretty boring viewer!

RonaldS · October 16, 2023 5:10 pm

RadioActive wrote:
‘Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent’ Announces Cast on First Original International Franchise Adaptation

I'm not sure about that headline - there was a "UK" L&O several years ago.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1166893/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_8_tt_7_nm_1_q_law%2520and%2520order

SpinningWheel · October 16, 2023 11:30 pm

RadioActive wrote:
Snip
Yep. Perhaps traffic in the city is the biggest crime they'll have to confront. But I doubt even the detectives will be able to solve that one!

‘Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent’ Announces Cast on First Original International Franchise Adaptation

First original international franchise adaptation? They forgot Law & Order UK which ran from 2009 - 2014 which wasn't using retooled stories as far as I recall, and I've seen 'em all.

Last edited by SpinningWheel (October 16, 2023 11:33 pm)

betaylored · October 17, 2023 12:41 pm

https://www.tvinsider.com/1108449/law-and-order-toronto-criminal-intent-cast-nicola-correia-damude-araya-mengesha/

further details and the first official Law and Order team photo, it's in keeping with the franchise, everyone is looking intense, determined and capable, the show will also be available on Amazon obviously

p.s. do Canadian cops also wear their shields showing on their waistbands like American cops?

ckg927 · October 17, 2023 7:04 pm

SpinningWheel wrote:
RadioActive wrote:
Snip
Yep. Perhaps traffic in the city is the biggest crime they'll have to confront. But I doubt even the detectives will be able to solve that one!

‘Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent’ Announces Cast on First Original International Franchise Adaptation
First original international franchise adaptation? They forgot Law & Order UK which ran from 2009 - 2014 which wasn't using retooled stories as far as I recall, and I've seen 'em all.

I'm aware of that series, too.

Let's not forget one of the crime drama series that kinda kicked off the international co-production trend: Night Heat, which aired on CTV as well as CBS late night BEFORE the latter went with talk shows in that time period. (It also got a brief run in prime time on CBS as well.)

ToRon · October 18, 2023 11:49 am

Won't fly up here. Not enough diversity in the photo.

betaylored wrote:
https://www.tvinsider.com/1108449/law-and-order-toronto-criminal-intent-cast-nicola-correia-damude-araya-mengesha/

further details and the first official Law and Order team photo, it's in keeping with the franchise, everyone is looking intense, determined and capable, the show will also be available on Amazon obviously

p.s. do Canadian cops also wear their shields showing on their waistbands like American cops?

paterson1 · October 18, 2023 12:04 pm

The upcoming Toronto version of Law & Order was part of Jimmy Fallon's monologue last night. He said the cast for the new series Law & Order Toronto Criminal Intent has been announced. "Every episode ends the same way with the judge saying how do you plead... sorry or not sorry. And since it's set in Canada, it is more of a good cop, good cop type of show."

ig · October 18, 2023 4:00 pm

I'm glad they changed their mind about just calling it Law. Based on cops doing all the groundwork, the court then just throws the case out. Not an exciting premise but at least true to life.

paterson1 wrote:
The upcoming Toronto version of Law & Order was part of Jimmy Fallon's monologue last night. He said the cast for the new series Law & Order Toronto Criminal Intent has been announced. "Every episode ends the same way with the judge saying how do you plead... sorry or not sorry. And since it's set in Canada, it is more of a good cop, good cop type of show."

betaylored · October 19, 2023 4:11 pm

ToRon wrote:
Won't fly up here. Not enough diversity in the photo.

betaylored wrote:
https://www.tvinsider.com/1108449/law-and-order-toronto-criminal-intent-cast-nicola-correia-damude-araya-mengesha/

further details and the first official Law and Order team photo, it's in keeping with the franchise, everyone is looking intense, determined and capable, the show will also be available on Amazon obviously

p.s. do Canadian cops also wear their shields showing on their waistbands like American cops?

Agree. It'll fly like a WKRP Thanksgiving turkey.

And how badly will the cast members mispronounce "Toronto" in an average episode cause it'll be a dead giveaway, pun intended, that they've not done their homework. Turrawn-nah or will they hit the second T ?

Last edited by betaylored (October 19, 2023 5:28 pm)