The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum » Super Bowl & SimSub: Why It’s Not Over Yet

RadioActive · August 20, 2016 11:48 pm

It’s back! The CRTC issued a very long edict on Friday, making it official – Canadians on cable or satellite will be able to watch the American feed (and the commercials) of the Super Bowl, starting in 2017, without the need for simultaneous substitution.

But there’s one exemption that may have escaped some people's notice. According to the Commission, the simsub exception applies only to the game itself – not the pre- and post-game. So CTV will effectively have those to itself.

The text of this lengthy decision is written in typical CRTC bureaucratese, but it contains the sometimes fascinating arguments that both Bell (referred to as “BCE” in the document) and the NFL itself tried so desperately to use to stop this idea in its tracks. Here they are, translated to more user friendly English.

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Bell: You didn’t give us enough notice that this was coming or what the burden of proof was to make our case.

CRTC: Yes we did. We’re not a court, so there is no “burden of proof.” And you knew we were holding a hearing on this. That was enough notice.

Bell: You’re supposed to help promote Canadian programming.

CRTC: True, but we also have a mandate to ensure special international programming is accessible to all Canadians.

Bell: There are so few people who care about this, the CRTC shouldn’t worry about it.

CRTC: The intervention process is so time consuming, most people don’t bother to apply. But the Commission heard during its “Let’s Talk TV” initiative that bad simsub in general and commercial substitutions during the Super Bowl in particular, were what viewers cared about.

Bell: Canadian stations (i.e. Bell’s stations) would lose millions of dollars in advertising if the American spots are allowed to air unfettered, hurting the industry and the money available for future Canadian programming. Also, letting in American merchants, like Wal-Mart and McDonalds, will hurt Canadian companies like Tim Horton’s and Canadian Tire.

CRTC: The Super Bowl is the only show being exempted and Bell will make plenty of money selling ads in it. CTV will still be able to show the game and its Canadian ads. Viewers will just be able to choose where they watch it.

Bell: You’re overruling your own simsub policy and the reasons behind it.

CRTC: Simsub for the Super Bowl is not a right and we can modify the rules we created at our discretion.

Bell/NFL:: The rules give the CRTC the right to decide about simsub for a programming service, not an individual show.

CRTC: The rules give us the right to make exemptions for “unique programs” when it’s in the public interest. Besides, Bell made the rights agreement with the NFL, not with its advertisers. So arguing you’re losing money isn’t really a valid point.

NFL: Doing this violates the league’s copyright and NAFTA.

CRTC: That’s a stretch, since Bell still owns the rights in Canada and still shows the game here. Nothing we did really changes that. And there’s nothing in the Free Trade Agreement that covers something like this.

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Of course it won’t surprise you to learn that this isn’t over yet. Both Bell and the NFL have taken this decision to the Federal Court of Appeal, which means this game is going into overtime – regardless of what the CRTC affirmed this past week.

CRTC Decision

August 21, 2016 11:43 am

When it comes to most facets of broadcasting...Bell management=S T U P I D.

Bell couldn't be more out of touch if they were situated on Pluto. [Although they sure do a great impersonation of Goofy...and their operation is oh-so-obviously Mickey Mouse].

RadioActive · August 21, 2016 1:05 pm

And they have Scrooge McDuck in charge of their payroll!

Last edited by RadioActive (August 21, 2016 1:27 pm)

RadioQuiz · August 21, 2016 9:06 pm

I'm with Bell on this one. We either simsub or we don't. Why is the Super Bowl different?

August 21, 2016 9:25 pm

Because it's HIGH TIME that certain Canadian 'broadcasters' STOPPED taking advantage of Canadians. Listen to what the PEOPLE want and THEY just might listen to you. Otherwise. Hey!!! We really don't have to listen OR watch now do we?

IT makes good business sense. While screwing the customer who spends their valuable time with 'you' =STUPID. That's why.

Last edited by Old Codger (August 21, 2016 9:28 pm)

Radiowiz · August 21, 2016 11:15 pm

RadioQuiz wrote:
I'm with Bell on this one. We either simsub or we don't. Why is the Super Bowl different?

Fine. NO sim sub at all it is then, with an attitude like that.
I'm very much happy with no simsub during the SuperBowl.
There's more than enough time to see THE EXACT SAME CANADIAN ADS during other programs but Superbowl shows American ads as a first viewing, and most often crazy money goes into the production.
I want to see them as it happens, not later on.

The only reason why I watch Superbowl is for the AMERICAN ADS...not the Canadian crap.
(sometimes the odd Canadian ads are really good first run ads, but most often not)

There ARE many who want the American ads. Right? NO????

Bell can't on one hand cry out that they have to sim sub and on the other say that no one cares about the American ads.
If no one cares, then let them tune into CTV by choice, freely.
No need to fear that too many people will be watching the American station instead of CTV.
Right bell? Since nobody cares about the American ads...

(seriously bell, make up your mind!)

August 22, 2016 4:19 pm

Well then...it's easy...don't carry the Superbowl.

August 22, 2016 7:21 pm

Is it this time of year already where we have to talk about this BS?

1. Canadian networks pay national rights for programming. Re-transmitting US signals with the same programming makes those rights worthless.

2.We have 10% of the population of the biggest entertainment producer in the world. "Making better Canadian programming" will never add up.

The only possible options are currently:

1. Keep Simsub and the industry survives a bit longer
2. Get rid of it and it dies.

If you pick #2 - fine. It's a matter of opinion, but it at least follows logically.

Radiowiz · August 22, 2016 7:50 pm

Don wrote:
Is it this time of year already where we have to talk about this BS?

1. Canadian networks pay national rights for programming. Re-transmitting US signals with the same programming makes those rights worthless.

2.We have 10% of the population of the biggest entertainment producer in the world. "Making better Canadian programming" will never add up.

The only possible options are currently:

1. Keep Simsub and the industry survives a bit longer
2. Get rid of it and it dies.

If you pick #2 - fine. It's a matter of opinion, but it at least follows logically.

So what you're saying is that a sim sub is funding the cost of a Big Brother Canada, Amazing race Canada and stuff like that?

How about a fresh new original game show that Americans have never heard of? Heck I'd even take a Canadian version of a British gameshow. (not airing in the States)

Originality is better though, because then you won't get stung with the cost of renting their set.

Part of the reason why Who wants to be a millionaire Canada had a short life is because the rental of the set in the states was through the roof...

Last edited by Radiowiz (August 22, 2016 7:52 pm)

August 22, 2016 8:05 pm

Really, a game show? So big that US networks pick it up?

The reality is that getting a show to the top of the ratings takes the best writers, actors, producers, and a massive promotions budget. Doing that and being the #1 rated show in Canada wouldn't increase ad revenue enough to pay for it in the first place.

Radiowiz · August 22, 2016 9:20 pm

It might not be about getting American networks to carry the Canadian gameshow, but instead to get American networks to agree to carry an American version of the Canadian gameshow.
In doing so, a sim sub can occur when the American version airs.
The sim sub then helps fund the Canadian version.
(which hopefully will have good enough ratings to stick around a bit)

If the sim sub is not going to help fund Canadian gameshows, (to name one example) then there is no need to have a sim sub at all. It's serving no purpose other than to annoy viewers that want the American ads.

August 22, 2016 10:08 pm

The simsub is the sole reason I have to watch lower rated NFL games on network TV and higher rated CFL games on TSN. When a network buries the Canadian game in favour of the American game because they get to put their commercials on two channels instead of one, they're gaming the system. The CFL averages 150 to 200 000 viewers a game more than the NFL. Only in Canada would a network make money by getting lower ratings on purpose.

August 23, 2016 4:52 pm

I watch CFL games...on average 2 of them...virtually EVERY week...and ALL of the playoffs and, of course, the Grey Cup. I attended Grey Cup 100...in spite of the 1/2 time fiasco foisted on us by those 1/2-assed twits at Bell.

On the other hand I watch only the odd NFL game...especially if there's some valid controversy or story-line...during the season. That might happen twice. I then watch some of the playoffs followed by the Stupor Bowl. I have NO DOG in any NFL 'fight'.

The CFL is Can-Con. Gotta have some of that. The NFL? Carry it. Fine. Make money throughout the playoffs. Don't "lose" money on the Super Bowl. What? Oh? You wouldn't lose money on the Super Bowl? You just wouldn't rake in as much. Tough!!!

Shouldn't have been so gawd-dammed stupid and lost the rights to NHL hockey you ignorant fools. How's that working out for ya? The only thing worse would have been if you ended up getting it ALL like Rogers did. Stupid has a shelf life. You're both running out of time.

Bye.

Last edited by Old Codger (August 23, 2016 4:53 pm)

RadioActive · August 23, 2016 5:09 pm

I’m of two minds on this. (That’s contrary to those on SOWNY who feel I don’t even rate having one mind at all!) As someone who worked for years and years at a Canadian TV station, I understand how vital simsub has been to the bottom line of companies that shell out huge bucks for rights to everything from the Super Bowl to sitcoms.

But as a viewer, I’m on the other side of the fence. I know it seems like a small point, but for years, I have mightily resented being told on which channel I have to watch a certain show.

This stuck mindset actually originated in the very early days of the substitution policy, when Canadian stations were allowed to show far more spots per hour than their American counterparts. As a result, Canuck outlets would buy U.S. shows then absolutely butcher them with edits that completely destroyed the mood, the writing and at times, the emotional impact of a production.

This was especially true of dramas, but it didn’t really matter what the genre was. They’d cut out at least two or three minutes of a show to air spots and it used to make my blood boil. If I was investing 30 minutes or an hour of my time to see a show (and this was in the pre-VCR days, so you were watching it in real time) I wanted to see the entire thing, as it was made to be seen. And the edits looked like they were done with a chainsaw, totally oblivious to the mood or climax that show was heading towards.

So my prejudice against this practice runs long and deep, even though for the most part, they no longer slice off pieces of the show. My new pet peeve is them running banner spots or promos in a show, after they’ve just come back from three minutes of commercials, something CTV is especially guilty of these days.

As a result, I made a decision a very long time ago not to ever have Canadian cable or satellite. I still mostly use an antenna and get tons of stuff, with a bonus of never having to pay a dime to the evil Rogers or Bells of the world. And a lot of what I miss can be found on the web.

Most wouldn’t go that far, I know, but it’s always been a matter of principle to me. So while I get the importance of simsub as an industry guy, I won’t have it in my house as a member of the viewing public. Hypocritical? Maybe. But at least when I watch a U.S. show, I watch it on a U.S. station. And somehow, that still matters to me.

Glen Warren · August 23, 2016 8:06 pm

When Global had the rights to the NFL, the ad revenue from the Super Bowl telecast alone paid for the entire combined salary/wages of the on air operations department for one year in a single day (MCR / On Air operators, VTR ops, tape library, feeds staff). The rest of the the year was pure profit.... (excluding rights and licensing) ...

Always carry a network "A" game... but with 32 teams, you are not going to please all of the fans all of the time... Play Downs and Wild Cards are the bigger draw, especially when there is an East and then a West game... and then the Super Bowl, but if your team is out... well... start drinking...

C_A_S_H C_*_W "I'd like to buy a vowel please Pat"

August 23, 2016 9:26 pm

For consideration....

Why does Texas, with roughly the same population as English Canada, operating in an as free-market as you can get environment, not produce Texas-based prime-time dramas, that air only in Texas, that rate as high as or higher than the national shows?

Last edited by Don (August 23, 2016 9:31 pm)

Dale Patterson · August 23, 2016 9:32 pm

Don wrote:
For consideration....

Why does Texas, with roughly the same population as Canada, operating in an as free-market as you can get environment, not produce Texas-based prime-time dramas, that air only in Texas, that rate as high as or higher than the national shows?

Actually, Texas - well north Texas to be exact - has a booming television industry:

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/02/13/reality-is-north-texas-is-booming-for-tv-production/

August 23, 2016 9:41 pm

And X-Files was taped in Vancouver

Yes, they produce a lot of the big national shows. What are they producing in-state, that airs only in-state, and outrates the national shows?

RadioActive · September 7, 2016 10:33 am

RadioActive wrote:
Of course it won’t surprise you to learn that this isn’t over yet. Both Bell and the NFL have taken this decision to the Federal Court of Appeal, which means this game is going into overtime – regardless of what the CRTC affirmed this past week.

The court has now dismissed the appeal, leaving Bell and the NFL an option to refile "once the CRTC makes their decision final" - although I was under the impression they'd already done so. Anyway, this endless nonsense still isn't over as both opponents of the idea - backed by big bucks with millions of dollars at stake - will likely continue this fight right up to February 2017, when the big game airs - supposedly with the U.S. feed being allowed here.

Court dismisses Bell appeal of CRTC policy on Super Bowl ads

Radiowiz · September 7, 2016 6:55 pm

The sim sub really is going obsolete anyway, with more Canadians resorting to alternatives like the Red Rhino box right? http://myredrhinotv.com/

I'm actually considering cutting my cable to a bare minimum
(a minimum that still includes CP24, since it's absent from those boxes)
Red Rhino might become my new choice for everything else.
Thankfully, the sim sub can not cut into one of those.

RadioActive · November 3, 2016 9:14 am

Bell has now won a court appeal about the CRTC edict - but it's a Pyrrhic Victory at best. The court will look at the issue but won't stay the simsub ban, and it likely won't be heard in time for the 2017 game. This thing has been going on longer than the U.S. election - and at least that will be over one way or the other by next week.

Bell wins right to appeal new Super Bowl ad policy

RadioActive · December 16, 2016 10:32 am

Welcome back my friends to the story that never ends.

(RIP Greg Lake)

Canadian MPs try to change CRTC call on Super Bowl ads

Kilgore · December 16, 2016 10:40 am

Watching American commercials on Cdn TV is a non-issue up here; what DOES have locals upset is the fact basic satellite & cable packages do not carry the Grey Cup game

Kilgore · December 16, 2016 10:43 am

Kilgore wrote:
Watching American commercials on Cdn TV is a non-issue up here; what DOES have locals upset is the fact basic satellite & cable packages do not carry the Grey Cup game

. . . while at the same time those packages are presenting a number of NFL games. Oh! Canada

RadioActive · January 5, 2017 10:28 am

It's back! With exactly one month to go before the Super Bowl airs, and amid an on-going court appeal, the story that won't die returns from the grave. This time, it's been revealed that the NFL has actually gone to the Prime Minister's office - and other federal MPs - in a last ditch Hail Mary pass to stop the removal of simsub for the big game on Feb. 5th.

NFL lobbied prime minister’s office, MPs to overturn CRTC Super Bowl ad decision

While I understand Bell's increasing desperation to stop what now seems almost inevitable, it's only fair to point out that none of this means Bell won't be able to air the Super Bowl and its own ads - just that the signal for the American feed won't be cut off in Canada. And there's a part of me that wonders if Bell is doing itself more harm than good, given what I can only diplomatically refer to as the sometimes uninformed nature of the general public.

Case in point - New Year's Day, when the price of gas soared permanently by 4.3 cents a litre because of that odious carbon tax money grab, many of us filled up the night before. But TV newscasts the next day were gorged with streeters showing outraged motorists reacting to the change, noting "they didn't know it was coming." Didn't know? Didn't know? It was making headlines for weeks if not months.

I've seen this before - people who completely tune out the news, to their own detriment. The point is that I'm willing to bet there are a ton of football viewers who have no idea this is even happening and will wind up watching the game on CTV, because that's what they always do. I understand why Bell and the NFL are pushing this to the limit, but maybe repeatedly telling viewers that they can see the American feed over and over and over isn't the best publicity they could get.

Better to fight this afterwards and see if they can stop something similar from happening next year. Because with a month to go, it may be too late for a final time out.

Anyway, I suspect we haven't heard the last of this yet. Again.