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May 18, 2018 10:12 am  #1


Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

New application to move AM 1350's antenna posted by the CRTC.  Looks like they still intend to launch.  From their technical brief:
"Since it was not possible to achieve all necessary coordination at the original site proposed in the firstapplication, the applicant is proposing to move the operation to a new site located at 1715 Britannia Rd E inMississauga (ON)."

 

May 18, 2018 11:43 am  #2


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

I don't envy anyone trying to find a suitable AM transmitter site in 2018 Toronto. Expensive on both the CAPEX and OPEX side.

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (May 18, 2018 11:46 am)

 

May 18, 2018 4:42 pm  #3


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Some of these applications were approved by the CRTC several years ago.  But I think it would be crazy for the commission to grant any more licenses for commercial stations on the AM band.  Unless it is a legacy station in a large market like Toronto, AM radio is no longer commercially viable.  And we may be saying the same thing in the future about small market FM radio, since many of those stations are struggling financially.

 

May 18, 2018 4:54 pm  #4


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Oh, but those same AMs can have wall-to-wall shilling of jewelers, real estate agents, gentlemen's' clothiers and their never-ending trunk sales (whatever the eff that means), precious metals, primerica scams, airport motel seminars, pillows, jewelers going-out-of-business that miraculously achieved great grandparent status (an achievement only matched by 3.47 Billion other people)......

 

May 18, 2018 5:02 pm  #5


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Irvine wrote:

I'd wonder why anyone would buy an AM signal of any type in this day and age.  Even if you do an ethnic station how long have you got?  I hope they didn't pay much. 

I think I'm having trouble understanding this whole HD radio in Canada thing.

Could it be because, in order to obtain an HD broadcast licence from the CRTC, they'll consider the AM and FM stations first...or is that not true at all?
Can just anyone apply for an HD only radio broadcast licence?
Won't the CRTC simply say "Sorry but we have to consider the other applications first..."?

Once it is granted that HD radio is a go ahead, can the AM signal be shut down? Or does CRTC still cut in and dictate that the HD signal must also be surrendered in favour of someone else already running an AM or FM station?

 

 

May 18, 2018 5:24 pm  #6


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

C'mon?! Who the eff actually HAS an HD receiver? This is deader than Lawrence Welk's accordion playing genderfluid Myron Floren. Mr. Floren, in addition to being a polka-master, was kicked out of the Welk family due to his love of Anime-theme Eastern European Tentacle Porn. Imagine all that "and a one, and a two..." oompa-pa music whilst ole Myron was secretly fondling a fresh pouch of squid ink in his left shoe.

 

May 18, 2018 6:14 pm  #7


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

cGrant wrote:

C'mon?! Who the eff actually HAS an HD receiver? 

You would have said the same thing about FM radio back in the 1960's right?

Let's start with cars and take it from there... 
https://hdradio.com/canada/products?qt-canada_products=1#qt-canada_products

Last edited by Radiowiz (May 18, 2018 6:16 pm)

 

May 18, 2018 7:11 pm  #8


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

I guess this means that for now the folks in Peel Region can continue to listen to WARF-Akron and KRNT-Des Moines once darkness sets in.

 

May 18, 2018 9:54 pm  #9


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Many newer cars have HD radios. I have had several BMW’s going back 10 years all with HD. Once you get used to listening to HD stations, you try avoid the terrible sounding analogue ones. And 680 News is so much clearer in HD.

 

May 18, 2018 10:21 pm  #10


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

NW wrote:

I guess this means that for now the folks in Peel Region can continue to listen to WARF-Akron and KRNT-Des Moines once darkness sets in.

WARF - I don't know why, but every time I hear those calls I think of Moon Unit Zappa, you know, "Warf me out and gag me with a spoon". Anyhow, I much prefer WTDR Gadsden and WGPL Portsmouth.

 

May 18, 2018 11:11 pm  #11


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

HD radio has been available in the US market for almost 15 years. In fact most US FM stations now broadcast in HD. It’s only the Canadian market that has been far behind. It’s not new technology and Bell Media and Corus and others are slowly rolling out HD in the major markets. Make sure your next car has HD and you’ll definitely appreciate the benefits.

 

May 18, 2018 11:45 pm  #12


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Irvine wrote:

@RadioWiz
HD radio will never become mainstream. 
 

As I've said, let's start with the car and take it from there...

 

 

May 19, 2018 12:03 pm  #13


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Irvine wrote:

comparing what happened in the 1960's to now is also moot.  There was no technology in the 60s. There was no internet.  There was no smart phone.  There was no LTE . FM was an advancement at the time.  HD today is not. 

Thank you; you beat me to this very same point. Ask any younger person today how many of them own a radio outside of their car. You'd be surprised. And, HDr is worlds apart in Canada vs the States. Here, HDs are only repeaters of existing signals. Who cares if I hear "640 in crystal-clear audio under the streetcar wires"?
 

 

May 19, 2018 4:30 pm  #14


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

cGrant wrote:

HDs are only repeaters of existing signals. Who cares if I hear "640 in crystal-clear audio under the streetcar wires"?

Not true at all. The option to use HD for other reasons is there. It's being done here in Canada.
Here's an example:  http://www.wave.fm/pages/the-wave-on-94-7-fm-hd-2

There is nothing wrong with HD radio at this time. The return on the investment is excellent.

 

May 19, 2018 5:01 pm  #15


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Not sure I understand the statement "The return on investment is excellent." At this point, there is zero return on investment, and it's likely that there will never be.

Right now, in Canada's biggest market, it's a better way to hear 590/640/680 downtown, and not really anything else. Neat, but doesn't change anything. 

And having chosen IBOC, it means all the HD channels will be controlled by the existing, entrenched broadcasters. No room for an upstart with a great idea to get a foothold.

Bell's HD stations haven't come back since the fire at the CN Tower, and I doubt Rogers' will if and when they have a similar setback.

HD is dead in the water.

 

Last edited by Don (May 19, 2018 5:05 pm)

 

May 19, 2018 5:18 pm  #16


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Radiowiz wrote:

Here's an example:  http://www.wave.fm/pages/the-wave-on-94-7-fm-hd-2
There is nothing wrong with HD radio at this time. The return on the investment is excellent.

That's great, RW. Other than that ONE example, does every market, large and small, have similar HD broadcasts?

The RoR of HD is "excellent"? Wow. Where do I start? I'd love to see the balance sheet that proves me wrong. If your stance is a HD repeater signal of, say, 640 piggybacking off a Hamilton signal gives Corus more ad exposure in the GTHA, respectfully, I'd take issue with that notion. 640's Tx is fine in the western edge of its terrestrial linear pattern. Hearing a jewellry, precious metals, gentlemen's clothier, pillow ad in "crystal-clear stereo" hardly is a sell to millennials. And, seniors that are keeping their cars longer, well, those cars are not equipped with HD. So, where's the upside?

Irvine wrote:

Again, it's 2018 and not 1974.  Do you pay attention to trends?  

Couldn't resist, sorry. Keeping up and ACCEPTING trends, with respect, is most assuredly and definitely not a hallmark of the majority of posters here, sorry.

Point-of-fact, they blame trends for the state of the medium today. Pity. I rather relish the ever-changing momentum of progress. Personally, I have ADHD and multitasking whilst in-studio is exhilarating and scintillating. Performing a live broadcast, while simultaneously tracking another cluster station, interacting with multiple cluster social medias and tracking yet another neighbouring cluster, is fulfilling.

If I may suggest, and I sincerely apologize for the following statement, but I'd be surprised if the veterans of the Illuminati of this board could keep up that pace. (Again, I am not being mean to be mean.) And, in the end, isn't that what the majority on here are complaining about? It is those trends and tech that, possibly, is the reason they "chose" retirement vs continuing in the biz. With respect, gone are the days of one jock doing nothing other than performing into a mic for one station being helped by one producer. And that is his/her only singular task.

 

 

May 21, 2018 12:50 pm  #17


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

I think you are all missing the point of HD radio. It's not a new medium as FM was originally. It's simply a significant enhancement to existing FM and AM radio. As most new cars are now equipped with HD radios, and indeed my new Tesla does not even have an AM radio as electrical vehicles and AM do not play nice together, HD provides incredible sound quality on HD1 and the ability to listen to AM stations on the sub carriers. With no HD there would be no 680 News or AM 640 in my vehicle. No one is expecting anyone to go out and buy a new radio for your home. However if your car already has an HD radio, shouldn't all stations in Canada be upgrading to HD as they have in the US? It's only a matter of time until the CN Tower's FM combiner is upgraded as other combiners in the US have (eg New York City). You'll begin to see more and more Canadian radio stations moving to HD in the future. HD is certainly not going away anytime soon...

Last edited by Hrick (May 21, 2018 12:52 pm)

 

May 21, 2018 1:45 pm  #18


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Hrick wrote:

I think you are all missing the point of HD radio. It's not a new medium as FM was originally. It's simply a significant enhancement to existing FM and AM radio. As most new cars are now equipped with HD radios, and indeed my new Tesla does not even have an AM radio as electrical vehicles and AM do not play nice together, HD provides incredible sound quality on HD1 and the ability to listen to AM stations on the sub carriers. With no HD there would be no 680 News or AM 640 in my vehicle. No one is expecting anyone to go out and buy a new radio for your home. However if your car already has an HD radio, shouldn't all stations in Canada be upgrading to HD as they have in the US? It's only a matter of time until the CN Tower's FM combiner is upgraded as other combiners in the US have (eg New York City). You'll begin to see more and more Canadian radio stations moving to HD in the future. HD is certainly not going away anytime soon...

With respect, what part of HD are we not getting? We are all celebrating that YOU can catch repeaters on your electric car. But, again, it is you that is missing one important ingredient: trend. Those millennials are listening to their car radios to the playlists they create via their cell phones or ancillary services.

As for the CN tower, you're again missing the point. How long has their HD Tx been down since the lightning storm? There is absolutely no priority or desire to repair it. And, if the big players aren't willing to follow thru, you think anyone else will be?

Radio, sadly, very sadly, is dying a death of a thousand cuts. Maybe not in our lifetime, but soon after.
 

 

May 21, 2018 2:26 pm  #19


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

I agree more with Hrick.
Excellent points Hrick. Well made.

 

May 21, 2018 3:07 pm  #20


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

does anyone really listen to radio (except for the alarm clock + the receiver in the shower, both for a few minutes) in their residence, anymore?     

Am with Hrick and RadWiz.    680 news on weekdays and Jody Thornton weekends have a captive audience whether the audience is sitting on Hwy 400, 401, 403, 410 or the Gardiner or the DVP.                

 

May 21, 2018 5:32 pm  #21


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

I have read that there can be technical issues with HD on AM if two stations in the same region are positioned closely on the dial.  If the FAN 590 broadcast in HD from its Grimsby transmitter, I am guessing it would interfere with CKTB 610 in St. Catharines.  As a work-around, It sounds like the stations are using a low-powered repeater to broadcast in HD.  The limited range of the signal, the lack of compatible receivers plus the cost of the extra transmitter makes the price of broadcasting in HD on AM highly questionable.

As far as FM is concerned, as long as there is a .6 MHz spacing between stations, I am led to believe that interference shouldn't be an issue.

 

May 21, 2018 6:06 pm  #22


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Hrick wrote:

I HD provides incredible sound quality on HD.

Sure, if you count obvious digital artifacts and distortion as "incredible". Sorry, the sound sucks. And it's irrelevant anyway as supposed "sound quality" means nothing in the era of satellite radio, which sound terrible, and where listening to music through an iPhone's built in speaker is the norm. 

New, compelling content is the only thing that will sell new tech to the masses, and HD radio doesn't have it.

 

May 22, 2018 12:22 am  #23


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Irvine wrote:

Maybe to the members of this forum Geo, but the rest of us...
 

Right, sure, and all 3 top 40 stations going after the Toronto ear should change format right now, targeting a much older audience.

 

 

May 22, 2018 6:22 am  #24


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

veritas vincit

 

May 22, 2018 8:40 am  #25


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

The conversation here begs the question - What is radio?

Radio is a delivery vehicle for content, just as newspaper and television sets are vehicles for content. But they do more than deliver content - they help define its structure and its nature. Radio, like newspapers and television, is a somewhat modern-day iteration of the campfire storytelling and singing of our earliest ancestors. That, too, was radio - metaphorically speaking. Radio, as we've known it, is almost magical as a delivery vehicle insofar as we can neither see nor read the content. It's given our imaginations a workout, and that's a big reason we have this board - we're passionate about a communications medium we quite rightfully have recognized as special and meaningful.

But change is underway. It always is - just as humans are evolutionary creatures, so are the things around us. That magical box in your car, at your bedside, or - much more rarely these days - in your living room is undergoing a transformation to match communications technology that is fast eclipsing current abilities and is doing so much more than it was ever capable of doing. You can now monitor your refrigerator, talk to your great aunt in Madagascar and do your office work on the very same device you use to listen to and video-stream traffic reports and enjoy your favourite music or spoken word programming.

What we think of as conventional radio, the medium people first gathered 'round nearly a century ago, is still with us, albeit with a variety of changes and technical challenges (streetcar tracks and other electronic interference particularly on AM, ridiculously crowded dial in some places, limited spectrum space, lack of meaningful choice).

Let's imagine 20 years down the road, just to pull a next-generation number out of a hat. What will radio sound like? What form might it take? Certainly, we live in an era that's so increasingly inter-connected that it's called the wired generation. But in fact our world is now so really and truly wireless that we're effectively at a new dawn both for the kind of delivery truck we use for content, but for content itself. The possibilities are endless and awesome not for the end of radio but for its rebirth (or more properly, its continuity).

Radio will differ dramatically from what it was like from the 20s through the 90s, and the key is that we respect radio for the content that it really is, and not just for the delivery vehicle that it happens to be as a medium for content. Is the magic of radio limited to establishing an (insert a network here) replica in every town in Canada? The key is for content delivered over the airwaves to be truly local, or at least compelling. It's not just the networks, which have to varying degrees squandered the magic of conventional radio. Even the somewhat high-powered jukebox pirate running out of the Georgina area on 93.9 - if it's captain had any swashbuckle there'd be talk between the rock music tracks. Otherwise a local might as well just listen to their personal playlist.

Speaking of personal playlists ... they're an evolution of 33s, cassette tapes, CDs, and such. So is YouTube and other forms of internet-based presentation of streaming. It's obvious we'll still have our personal playlists, and such. But campfire storytelling and singing aren't going away - they're just growing new branches.
 

 

May 22, 2018 9:55 am  #26


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Irvine wrote:

Not to mention many younger people don't even own cars now. They live in the urban core, they walk & use transit and don't care if Kiss, Hot, Energy, etc play traffic. 
 

As long as the cars sell, I don't really care about the crap you spew.
I believe HD radio is helping car sales. 
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/canada-easily-on-track-to-hit-record-car-sales-for-2017-1.3659495
 

 

May 22, 2018 10:05 am  #27


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

 

May 22, 2018 10:52 am  #28


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Saul wrote:

    How?     

Jody Thornton sounds more authoritative on HD.   Kind'a like Lorne Greene did on CBC radio during WWII.    Doesn't Jody make you want to go to a dealership and kick a 2018 model's tires, just for the possibility his advice will help you across the 401 during rush hour? 
 

 

May 22, 2018 11:03 am  #29


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Actually what's driving me to get a new car is the promise of HD on CKNT on 960.

 

May 22, 2018 3:12 pm  #30


Re: Radio Humsafar 1350 Brampton

Saul wrote:

Actually what's driving me to get a new car is the promise of HD on CKNT on 960.

Yes and people in the Niagara Peninsula can hardly wait for the HD broadcasts from CHSC 1220 when it returns to the airwaves.  Business will be booming at the Ontario St. Mercedes dealership.