The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum / K-LOVE 102.5 Toronto coming soon...

**Posted by RadioActive** May 22, 2023 3:20 pm

I didn't pay the five bucks either, but when you look at what Townsquare Media owns in Buffalo, it's possible to guess who might be shooting for a "Star."

They own WYRK-FM, the country formatted station that is always at the top of the ratings, so that's not going to change.

Then there's WBLK, the longtime Black oriented success, so it's safe, too.

That leaves two possible candidates: WMSX, the Breeze 96.1 or the always moribund WBUF-FM at 92.9, now on its latest format, "Real Rock." My bet is on the latter, if it happens at all or someone else doesn't beat them to it.

**Posted by Marsden** May 22, 2023 4:00 pm

I don't know if this fits where this thread is going. However here's a short story.

The 102 station was gaining an important position within the Toronto market. The Allen Brothers approached the CRTC about getting a station. The CRTC granted it at 102.1.

The Allen Brothers then called it CFNY. Get it - CFNY! Yes - that NY.

I remember in the basement of the Little Yellow House there we scores of boxes all containing the stickers that at the time were used to promote New York State. I don't recall if any of them were ever used.

They looked like this....

google jpg

**Posted by ckg927** May 22, 2023 4:26 pm

RadioActive wrote:
I didn't pay the five bucks either, but when you look at what Townsquare Media owns in Buffalo, it's possible to guess who might be shooting for a "Star."

They own WYRK-FM, the country formatted station that is always at the top of the ratings, so that's not going to change.

Then there's WBLK, the longtime Black oriented success, so it's safe, too.

That leaves two possible candidates: WMSX, the Breeze 96.1 or the always moribund WBUF-FM at 92.9, now on its latest format, "Real Rock." My bet is on the latter, if it happens at all or someone else doesn't beat them to it.

That was my thinking, too. Those are the ONLY possibilities.

IF it's WMSX switching, all they'd be doing is freshening up the playlist.

IF it's WBUF switching, they'd be trading in on blowtorch of a signal for another(they're at 76 kW)AND it would act as a flank for WMSX.

As Lance noted, this might only be the FIRST domino that falls on the Buffalo radio dial.

**Posted by RadioActive** May 22, 2023 5:16 pm

Marsden wrote:
I don't know if this fits where this thread is going. However here's a short story.

The 102 station was gaining an important position within the Toronto market. The Allen Brothers approached the CRTC about getting a station. The CRTC granted it at 102.1.

The Allen Brothers then called it CFNY. Get it - CFNY! Yes - that NY.

I remember in the basement of the Little Yellow House there we scores of boxes all containing the stickers that at the time were used to promote New York State. I don't recall if any of them were ever used.

They looked like this....

google jpg

I always thought it was North York. After all, if I recall correctly Q107 is officially licenced to North York, although you'd never know it listening to the station.

Mr. Marsden, you've accomplished a lot in radio. but getting through working for the Allen Bros. may be amongst the toughest things you've ever done! The stories I hear about them were legendary. But rarely in a good way.

**Posted by Radiowiz** May 23, 2023 1:20 am

ckg927 wrote:
IF it's WMSX switching, all they'd be doing is freshening up the playlist.
IF it's WBUF switching, they'd be trading in on blowtorch of a signal for another(they're at 76 kW)AND it would act as a flank for WMSX.

In the early 90's WBUF was Mix 92.9. I have no idea why that did not work out for them, but the short lived B 93 wasn't any better.
IF they choose to flip WBUF away from rock into a Star 102 type format, that could easily mean that Breeze will go softer.

**Posted by RadioAaron** May 23, 2023 6:00 pm

I do pay the $5 for that site, and the correct answer is in this thread.

**Posted by ckg927** May 29, 2023 3:25 pm

Small note: Within the last few days, Star 102.5 has been running liners(voiced by PM host Sue O'Neil)making reference to the fact that Star will be dimming soon and asking listeners to migrate over to Kiss 98.5 as Kiss is already playing some of the music that Start plays. Said liners are running at least once an hour.

**Posted by Radiowiz** May 29, 2023 3:56 pm

ckg927 wrote:
Small note: Within the last few days, Star 102.5 has been running liners(voiced by PM host Sue O'Neil)making reference to the fact that Star will be dimming soon and asking listeners to migrate over to Kiss 98.5 as Kiss is already playing some of the music that Start plays. Said liners are running at least once an hour.

Interesting. So Country music is more profitable than Star music? Even though there is already a Country music station down the dial to compete with?

**Posted by mace** May 30, 2023 9:18 am

Radiowiz wrote:
ckg927 wrote:
IF it's WMSX switching, all they'd be doing is freshening up the playlist.
IF it's WBUF switching, they'd be trading in on blowtorch of a signal for another(they're at 76 kW)AND it would act as a flank for WMSX.
In the early 90's WBUF was Mix 92.9. I have no idea why that did not work out for them, but the short lived B 93 wasn't any better.
IF they choose to flip WBUF away from rock into a Star 102 type format, that could easily mean that Breeze will go softer.

Ahh. WBUF. the station that has had almost as many call letter changes [7??] as format changes. Their most successful format was an A/C/Oldies mix from 1981 to the early to mid 90's.

**Posted by ckg927** May 30, 2023 4:06 pm

mace wrote:
Radiowiz wrote:
ckg927 wrote:
IF it's WMSX switching, all they'd be doing is freshening up the playlist.
IF it's WBUF switching, they'd be trading in on blowtorch of a signal for another(they're at 76 kW)AND it would act as a flank for WMSX.
In the early 90's WBUF was Mix 92.9. I have no idea why that did not work out for them, but the short lived B 93 wasn't any better.
IF they choose to flip WBUF away from rock into a Star 102 type format, that could easily mean that Breeze will go softer.
Ahh. WBUF. the station that has had almost as many call letter changes [7??] as format changes. Their most successful format was an A/C/Oldies mix from 1981 to the early to mid 90's.

Correct.

Here's the call letter changes(all of this per WBUF's Wikipedia page):

-WBUF from 1947 to 1980
-1980: It switched to WFXZ(Foxy 93), format unknown
-1982-91: They become FM 93(with the WBUF calls)with an AC/oldies format(AND a fully staffed newsroom)
-April '91-early '92: Mix 92.9/B93(format unknown, likely AC)
-1995: WSJZ(Smooth Jazz 92.9)
-1997: WLCE(Alice @ 92.9), modern AC
-1999: Back to WBUF and switching to rhythmic oldies as B 92.9. Their format has changed 4 times since then(rock, FM talk, Jack FM, and rock again), but the calls haven't changed.

Last edited by ckg927 (May 30, 2023 4:07 pm)

**Posted by haydenmatthews14** May 30, 2023 11:03 pm

According to these posts on Radio Discussions. Rumors are still going around that 96.1 or 92.9 might flip formats. But the question is: Will Kiss 98.5 play Christmas music this year from November to December just like what 102.5 did? Or will it stick to an Adult Top 40 format? Also there were discussions that Rob Lucas the morning show host on 102.5 might end his long career in radio. But some speculate that he might move to middays at Kiss 98.5 or join 96.1 The Breeze? We will have to find out.

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/the-latest-on-102-5.763908/page-3

Last edited by haydenmatthews14 (May 30, 2023 11:04 pm)

**Posted by Radiowiz** May 31, 2023 12:22 am

ckg927 wrote:
-April '91-early '92: Mix 92.9/B93(format unknown, likely AC)

Mix 92.9 played a mix of 60's to 90's music. It was fun hearing Brian Adams one minute and Herman's hermits the next. B93 dropped the 60's and made 70's scarce (if at all)

**Posted by ckg927** June 7, 2023 5:01 pm

Per Lance Venta's Radio Insight, we now know a bit more about what Audacy has in store for WTSS/102.5 .

http://radioinsight.com/headlines/252820/audacy-sets-sign-off-time-for-fm-100-memphis-call-change-set-for-buffalo/

Last edited by ckg927 (June 7, 2023 5:01 pm)

**Posted by ckg927** June 7, 2023 10:02 pm

The end is here.

Rob Lucas gets the honor of bringing Star 102.5 to an end and that will happen on Friday(6/9) from 6-10am. So go ahead and get the aircheck machines rolling. After that, it will switch to a simulcast of WKSE(Kiss 98.5)until it switches to K-Love. Sue O'Neil segues over to Kiss(airshift TBD), while Lucas is likely exiting broadcasting.

Last edited by ckg927 (June 8, 2023 4:04 pm)

**Posted by Radiowiz** June 9, 2023 7:46 am

A Star 102 mini aircheck: Looks like Kiss 98five is now trying to be the new "at work" station, leaving a hole in the market for top 40, or all hit radio.

Last edited by Radiowiz (June 9, 2023 7:48 am)

**Posted by radiokid** June 9, 2023 9:50 pm

Radiowiz wrote:
A Star 102 mini aircheck: Looks like Kiss 98five is now trying to be the new "at work" station, leaving a hole in the market for top 40, or all hit radio.

This video was recorded from Star before the simulcast started.

I've had a listen for a bit today after they flipped over... It's still basically a Top40/CHR but perhaps a little bit more dayparting, playing more a ADULT CHR during the day, and more mainstream CHR at night. They do have some confused messaging going on with "TODAY'S BEST MUSIC" "HOME FOR MUSIC AND FUN" "HIT MUSIC" all going on at once. They seem to have dropped the "Buffalo's #1 HIT music Station" I do wonder if they will clean that up once things settle a bit. Really should be a strong message and stick with it, as they mostly have under the BUFFALO's #1 HIT MUSIC STATION. I also think they shouldn't stray too far from CHR, as it will welcome someone else to try it. If they stay where they are musically, they likely can take the younger side of 102.5's audience and keep 98.5's current without issue. I do think their focus on AT WORK may be a bit off brand for Kiss. I could be wrong.. If you try to be too broad., you don't make anyone happy.

With 96.1 becoming STAR 96.1, and musically being more mainstream modern AC doing 90's to Now, I think the market actually is in a better place for the future. Soft AC wasn't really performing in the ratings there... This should actually help them a lot by grabing audience from STAR's mid-older demo, and actually balance things out better within the market of it's size. STAR 96.1 should be focused on at work listening which it seems they are... That is right in their lane.

We will see... it's been a while since this much change happened in Buffalo's market.

Last edited by radiokid (June 9, 2023 9:52 pm)

**Posted by Paul Jeffries** June 9, 2023 10:03 pm

Unlike Star 102.5, Star 96.1's online stream doesn't appear to be geo-blocked.

PJ

**Posted by Forward Power** June 9, 2023 11:22 pm

Audacy geoblocks all of their streams because they say it costs too much to allow any non-U.S. listener to tune in. What a steaming pile of baloney... always that lame excuse about fees and passing the buck to ASCAP/BMI/etc. Here in Canada, I don't think there are many commercial radio stations' streams that are geoblocked outside of the country, and the ones that are Canada-only are probably using the same bullcrap excuse and blaming SOCAN/ReSound/SODRAC/etc.

**Posted by RadioAaron** June 10, 2023 10:51 am

Forward Power wrote:
Audacy geoblocks all of their streams because they say it costs too much to allow any non-U.S. listener to tune in. What a steaming pile of baloney... always that lame excuse about fees and passing the buck to ASCAP/BMI/etc. Here in Canada, I don't think there are many commercial radio stations' streams that are geoblocked outside of the country, and the ones that are Canada-only are probably using the same bullcrap excuse and blaming SOCAN/ReSound/SODRAC/etc.

Corus, Rogers, Bell, and Stingray all geo-block. A penny spent by a commercial broadcaster streaming out of the country is a penny wasted.

**Posted by Forward Power** June 10, 2023 11:07 am

Really? A penny wasted? Are you friggin' serious? A penny is too expensive for them? What a goddamn slap in the face. I want written proof of how "expensive" it is to stream outside of your home country. Give me the B.S. numbers from the rights agencies etc. If not, you must be one of those companies' shareholders.

Last edited by Forward Power (June 10, 2023 11:14 am)

**Posted by Radiowiz** June 10, 2023 6:00 pm

Forward Power wrote:
Really? A penny wasted? Are you friggin' serious? A penny is too expensive for them? What a goddamn slap in the face. I want written proof of how "expensive" it is to stream outside of your home country. Give me the B.S. numbers from the rights agencies etc. If not, you must be one of those companies' shareholders.

This is one area where Radio Aaron and I do agree.
The real problem is, you might listen, but you might never shop and spend money on the ads.
I used to believe that something as simple as "Tide gets your clothes clean" was good enough.
I regret to inform you that I would be dead wrong to continue believing this.
The American Tide and Canadian Tide run on separate budgets, almost as if they were two totally different companies.
Same with Coke Canada and Coke USA....and so on.
They both run on separate budgets, often with a different word to get out to the listener.
IF Tide has some new special tide only available in the States, it doesn't benefit Tide Canada at all.
Plus also, Tide Canada might have their own special Tide brand.

I'll try to help you a bit here by suggesting a smothered Canadian banner advertising, along with a Canadian ad before the stream starts, but I don't think I can win that idea either...

**Posted by mace** June 12, 2023 7:24 am

A good VPN solves the geo-blocking problem.

**Posted by ckg927** June 13, 2023 4:58 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
Forward Power wrote:
Audacy geoblocks all of their streams because they say it costs too much to allow any non-U.S. listener to tune in. What a steaming pile of baloney... always that lame excuse about fees and passing the buck to ASCAP/BMI/etc. Here in Canada, I don't think there are many commercial radio stations' streams that are geoblocked outside of the country, and the ones that are Canada-only are probably using the same bullcrap excuse and blaming SOCAN/ReSound/SODRAC/etc.
Corus, Rogers, Bell, and Stingray all geo-block. A penny spent by a commercial broadcaster streaming out of the country is a penny wasted.

Can confirm. I've tried to access Boom 97.3 at least one in the past year or two and wasn't able to stream it.

Question: Do people get the same reaction if you use the website Radio.garden to stream one of those stations?

**Posted by RadioAaron** June 13, 2023 6:19 pm

Forward Power wrote:
Really? A penny wasted? Are you friggin' serious? A penny is too expensive for them? What a goddamn slap in the face. I want written proof of how "expensive" it is to stream outside of your home country. Give me the B.S. numbers from the rights agencies etc. If not, you must be one of those companies' shareholders.

Zero of the money spent is recovered. If it's $1/month it's too much.

**Posted by RadioAaron** June 13, 2023 6:22 pm

ckg927 wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Forward Power wrote:
Audacy geoblocks all of their streams because they say it costs too much to allow any non-U.S. listener to tune in. What a steaming pile of baloney... always that lame excuse about fees and passing the buck to ASCAP/BMI/etc. Here in Canada, I don't think there are many commercial radio stations' streams that are geoblocked outside of the country, and the ones that are Canada-only are probably using the same bullcrap excuse and blaming SOCAN/ReSound/SODRAC/etc.
Corus, Rogers, Bell, and Stingray all geo-block. A penny spent by a commercial broadcaster streaming out of the country is a penny wasted.
Can confirm. I've tried to access Boom 97.3 at least one in the past year or two and wasn't able to stream it.

Question: Do people get the same reaction if you use the website Radio.garden to stream one of those stations?

Yes. Stream aggregators all track back to the same original source, which itself is geo-blocked.

**Posted by Forward Power** June 13, 2023 7:38 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
Zero of the money spent is recovered. If it's $1/month it's too much.

That is incredibly short-sighted and a complete BS response. I am fully aware that these companies are publicly traded companies and how such companies work. I know full well that they are only in business to minimize costs and maximize profits for their greedy, faceless, heartless, soulless, unreasonable scumbag idiot shareholders - everything else is an afterthought. I'm glad I don't have an "investment portfolio", because everybody who has one always expects a few bucks to magically become a few million by the time they reach 65.

Seriously, there has to be more to life than just chasing after profits and having unreasonable demands for said profits and "growth". Investors, shareholders etc. must lead some rather sad lives if their prime focus is profits and nothing else.

Last edited by Forward Power (June 13, 2023 7:40 pm)

**Posted by RadioAaron** June 13, 2023 7:58 pm

Forward Power wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
Zero of the money spent is recovered. If it's $1/month it's too much.
That is incredibly short-sighted and a complete BS response. I am fully aware that these companies are publicly traded companies and how such companies work. I know full well that they are only in business to minimize costs and maximize profits for their greedy, faceless, heartless, soulless, unreasonable scumbag idiot shareholders - everything else is an afterthought. I'm glad I don't have an "investment portfolio", because everybody who has one always expects a few bucks to magically become a few million by the time they reach 65.

Seriously, there has to be more to life than just chasing after profits and having unreasonable demands for said profits and "growth". Investors, shareholders etc. must lead some rather sad lives if their prime focus is profits and nothing else.

So, why should they lose money on this?

This seems like a rant against capitalism in general, which is fine and understandable. But pragmatically, I'm not sure why a business should spend money on something that doesn't provide a proportionate return.

Last edited by RadioAaron (June 13, 2023 7:59 pm)

**Posted by canam2021** June 16, 2023 5:11 pm

Former WTSS transitioned today to WBWA K-Love religious

**Posted by georgio1** June 16, 2023 5:41 pm

Forward Power wrote:
they are only in business to minimize costs and maximize profits for their greedy, faceless, heartless, soulless, unreasonable scumbag idiot shareholders

You seem to be mellowing -- you left out bean counters

**Posted by mace** June 16, 2023 6:52 pm

canam2021 wrote:
Former WTSS transitioned today to WBWA K-Love religious

Nope. Just tuned them in on the World Radio Map site. Still a simulcast of 98.5.