Posted by RadioActive  August 6, 2025 4:17 pm | #1 |
Stingray's radio division - which owns Boom 97.3, one of Toronto's top rated stations - is flying high in profits. It proves that unlike Bell - which has previously said radio is no longer a viable business, shut down many stations and sold others - when you do it right, it can pay off.
Radio gains highlight Stingray Q1 performance
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Posted by brian451 August 6, 2025 4:50 pm | #2 |
And what is crazy is the fact they have a network of Boom stations in Alberta that more or less play the same songs and have the same hosts. I can't see how they make a lot of money with advertising. Also with the Breeze network, with low ratings in Vancouver and Edmonton and a morning show based in Halifax, it is hard to believe they make the company money. However Stingray does operate some great stations. Boom Toronto, Live and Hot in Ottawa, Z95.3 in Vancouver, AMP and XL in Calgary, K97 in Edmonton as well as others. So clearly those stations make good money.
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Posted by RadioAaron August 6, 2025 5:54 pm | #3 |
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with those small Alberta stations. Many of them are in not very healthy towns. Short of closing studios and making them cloud-based, there's not much left to cut. Often they have just one announcer each.
They do make heavy and creative use of Voice-Tracks. They are, I believe, the only major group that has announcers with no home station....who just VT.
They also benefit by not being weighed down by a bunch of AM stations.
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Posted by torontostan August 6, 2025 6:29 pm | #4 |
Make no mistake...... radio still makes money, nobody is denying that. The problem is there's no growth potential. If you're a publicly traded company, you cannot count on radio's continued effectiveness. If Bell, Rogers or Pattison disclosed their radio profitability and revenue, it would still be quite high too. Radio's success is not unique to Stingray as you allege. They all sell the same advertisers at the same CPM. Even so, radio as a business is not growing, hence the problem.
As for AM: I've said it on this board before and I will say it again, the only AM radio station (doing English language broadcasts) that will remain on-air in Toronto by 2030 will be 680 News.
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Posted by RadioQuiz August 6, 2025 7:13 pm | #5 |
I feel confident that if you look at radio margins, you will find the Stingray is amongst the best. Stingray still has great products too.
The other big corp guys struggle because someone in a board room wants to "bundle all the stuff" and the result is devalued radio products. The big stations are always fine... but beyond that it's rough.
Bay street likes "big growth" and shiny things but real investors like consistency and cash flow. Well run radio provides both. Groups like Stingray, MBC, Pattison are great investments. I'm sure there are others too.
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Posted by RadioAaron August 6, 2025 7:50 pm | #6 |
Stingray and Pattison might be great investments, but not because of radio. There is little to no growth potential in that division.
MBC will grow by feasting on the scraps, which is obviously temporary.
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Posted by torontostan August 6, 2025 7:51 pm | #7 |
RadioQuiz wrote:
I feel confident that if you look at radio margins, you will find the Stingray is amongst the best. Stingray still has great products too.
The other big corp guys struggle because someone in a board room wants to "bundle all the stuff" and the result is devalued radio products. The big stations are always fine... but beyond that it's rough.
Bay street likes "big growth" and shiny things but real investors like consistency and cash flow. Well run radio provides both. Groups like Stingray, MBC, Pattison are great investments. I'm sure there are others too.
I can agree that Stingray's margins may be better.
Bay Street does like consistency and cash flow, which is why big Canadian telecos used to be a good stock to hold. However broadcast media is not stable..... there are undeniable year over year losses. That's not consistency. Stingray and Pattison would not be a good "great" investment, but rather a decent one, and that would be driven by their non-radio assets. You're better off investing in a GIC than you are a radio station....... not that you can.
Big stations are fine because there's more room to fall. The big guys are selling their small stations before they have no value, and smaller operators are fine to try and make the best of the next 5-10 years, while public companies have to think about the next 10-20.
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Posted by JON POLE August 6, 2025 9:39 pm | #8 |
The University of Radio Aaron & Toronto Stan.
I invite you both to come follow me around for a day. You will see that my world is very different than how you attempt to represent it.
I mean this in the nicest possible way - but all the stuff you're saying was told to me 20 years ago when we started. All of these same points on why we would fail or why it would never work... or the end was near. Radio this, small guys that.
20 years later... we just had a record year with the group with our oldest station also posting a record year as well.
End of day - Maybe you're right? I just don't live in that same world.
I see nothing but upside for the business of radio.
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Posted by cash August 6, 2025 11:01 pm | #9 |
The University of Radio Aaron & Toronto Stan.
I invite you both to come follow me around for a day. You will see that my world is very different than how you attempt to represent it.
I mean this in the nicest possible way - but all the stuff you're saying was told to me 20 years ago when we started. All of these same points on why we would fail or why it would never work... or the end was near. Radio this, small guys that.
20 years later... we just had a record year with the group with our oldest station also posting a record year as well.
End of day - Maybe you're right? I just don't live in that same world.
I see nothing but upside for the business of radio.
Have you seen any effects on your business from all this tariff craziness?
Last edited by cash (August 6, 2025 11:15 pm)
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Posted by JON POLE August 6, 2025 11:09 pm | #10 |
The University of Radio Aaron & Toronto Stan.
I invite you both to come follow me around for a day. You will see that my world is very different than how you attempt to represent it.
I mean this in the nicest possible way - but all the stuff you're saying was told to me 20 years ago when we started. All of these same points on why we would fail or why it would never work... or the end was near. Radio this, small guys that.
20 years later... we just had a record year with the group with our oldest station also posting a record year as well.
End of day - Maybe you're right? I just don't live in that same world.
I see nothing but upside for the business of radio.Have you seen any effects on your business for all this tariff craziness?
Yes and No. It's certainly more friction for getting decisions as many business owners simply "don't know what is coming" - however there has been a healthy spirit/uptick of promoting more, reinforcing being Canadian and businesses not impacted educating consumers. Local and regional tourism has also been good. We have not seen a negative impact - but it part of every conversation. We represent a pretty wide section of business - broader than most - which helps.
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Posted by torontostan August 7, 2025 9:56 am | #11 |
The University of Radio Aaron & Toronto Stan.
I invite you both to come follow me around for a day. You will see that my world is very different than how you attempt to represent it.
I mean this in the nicest possible way - but all the stuff you're saying was told to me 20 years ago when we started. All of these same points on why we would fail or why it would never work... or the end was near. Radio this, small guys that.
20 years later... we just had a record year with the group with our oldest station also posting a record year as well.
End of day - Maybe you're right? I just don't live in that same world.
I see nothing but upside for the business of radio.
College of Jon Pole,
I can appreciate that your individual business may be profitable and seeing some gains, and that you were told the same thing 20 years ago, but the fact of the matter is that on aggregate, English radio revenue is down over 30% in the past 7 years, with no sign of slowing. Children, on average, do not willingly listen to radio, the majority of new cars don't even have a radio button, streaming only represents maybe 15% of listening, advertisers have more options than ever, radio is burdened with outdated regulations, and programming is mostly stripped to the lazy bone. While that may not be indicative of your situation right now, eventually, the margins will leave nobody spared......
U of TS
