The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum / CKWW G.M. Interview: It's More About News & Info Now Than Music

**Posted by RadioActive** August 27, 2024 1:11 pm

The songs will still be there, but according to the new G.M. of CKWW, the station will be more focused on news and talk than music.

"Al Pervin, the new general manager of AM 580, says the previous music-heavy format was not achieving high ratings in the market.

“We had the chance to buy it, so we did and we’re changing the format to focus more on local information for Windsor and also play some music from the ’70s and ’80s,” said Pervin. “But the local information is really our prime focus.”

Isn't that what CKLW is doing a lot of the day? Why they think they can do the same thing as the former Big 8 is intriguing. But can they afford to do it right? He also says they're aiming solely at Windsor and not one appealing to Windsor-Detroit. He also talks about what happens to their extensive music collection.

What's perhaps most interesting about this is that it's public WDET-FM interviewing the 76-year-old Pervin over its own airwaves. Very unusual to hear radio talk about radio, especially a competing station.

You can hear the chat at the link below.

Windsor’s AM 580 ditches music format for local news

**Posted by km93** August 27, 2024 3:09 pm

Would make sense for CKOC to do this as well, given the new hole in the market.

**Posted by Saul** August 27, 2024 3:13 pm

It's exactly what they should be doing -- and it needs to be intense.

**Posted by eladb** August 27, 2024 4:07 pm

Pervin says in that interview the target audience of the station will be Windsor, rather than Windsor-Detroit, and also says they believe there's room in that market for two news and information stations.

I'm skeptical about that but admittedly am not an expert on the Windsor market and would assume he's done more research than I have...we shall see.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 4:12 pm

km93 wrote:
Would make sense for CKOC to do this as well, given the new hole in the market.

If it were a hole in the market, the station formerly in the format wouldn't have been unplugged. Key word there is "market." That format no longer provides a product (listeners) that the medium's customers are looking to buy - at least not at a rate that covers the cost to provide it.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 4:12 pm

eladb wrote:
I'm skeptical about that but admittedly am not an expert on the Windsor market and would assume he's done more research than I have...we shall see.

You've done the same amount of research as them.

**Posted by kevjo** August 27, 2024 5:09 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
km93 wrote:
Would make sense for CKOC to do this as well, given the new hole in the market.
If it were a hole in the market, the station formerly in the format wouldn't have been unplugged. Key word there is "market." That format no longer provides a product (listeners) that the medium's customers are looking to buy - at least not at a rate that covers the cost to provide it.

It sounds like the time is ripe for someone to pursue a community licence for the market. With the right sales and marketing approach it could be a success.

**Posted by RadioActive** August 27, 2024 5:16 pm

So then the question has to be asked:

Did CHML fail because they couldn't find enough advertisers or was it simply Corus mismanagement? Or both?

**Posted by paterson1** August 27, 2024 9:27 pm

CKWW is going to have a rough go with the information route. Windsor already has two information stations with 800 CKLW and the local CBC Windsor radio outlet. I would think CBC Radio One is probably popular in the Windsor-Detroit market. I don't know anything about Windsor to really comment beyond this.

I agree that CKOC could go the community radio route. But they need to form an alliance with CHCH and The Spectator for any chance of success. These three need each other. Community radio works in smaller markets and it could in a larger city like Hamilton that is lacking local voices. But it will be a long slog. If CBC Radio One ever opens a local station in Hamilton/Niagara with a local morning show would also be a problem.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 10:00 pm

kevjo wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
km93 wrote:
Would make sense for CKOC to do this as well, given the new hole in the market.
If it were a hole in the market, the station formerly in the format wouldn't have been unplugged. Key word there is "market." That format no longer provides a product (listeners) that the medium's customers are looking to buy - at least not at a rate that covers the cost to provide it.
It sounds like the time is ripe for someone to pursue a community licence for the market. With the right sales and marketing approach it could be a success.

How is a community license based on selling ads any different than a commercial approach?

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 10:03 pm

RadioActive wrote:
So then the question has to be asked:

Did CHML fail because they couldn't find enough advertisers or was it simply Corus mismanagement? Or both?

Neither. The business model of spending money to get an AM talk station enough ratings to make a profit is dead. It's not going to happen. Dead, dead, dead.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 10:04 pm

paterson1 wrote:
CKWW is going to have a rough go with the information route. Windsor already has two information stations with 800 CKLW and the local CBC Windsor radio outlet. I would think CBC Radio One is probably popular in the Windsor-Detroit market. I don't know anything about Windsor to really comment beyond this.

I agree that CKOC could go the community radio route. But they need to form an alliance with CHCH and The Spectator for any chance of success. These three need each other. Community radio works in smaller markets and it could in a larger city like Hamilton that is lacking local voices. But it will be a long slog. If CBC Radio One ever opens a local station in Hamilton/Niagara with a local morning show would also be a problem.

No, None that. You're completely blind to the current reality.

**Posted by paterson1** August 27, 2024 10:06 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
CKWW is going to have a rough go with the information route. Windsor already has two information stations with 800 CKLW and the local CBC Windsor radio outlet. I would think CBC Radio One is probably popular in the Windsor-Detroit market. I don't know anything about Windsor to really comment beyond this.

I agree that CKOC could go the community radio route. But they need to form an alliance with CHCH and The Spectator for any chance of success. These three need each other. Community radio works in smaller markets and it could in a larger city like Hamilton that is lacking local voices. But it will be a long slog. If CBC Radio One ever opens a local station in Hamilton/Niagara with a local morning show would also be a problem.

No, None that. You're completely blind to the current reality.

None of what?

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 27, 2024 10:08 pm

paterson1 wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
paterson1 wrote:
CKWW is going to have a rough go with the information route. Windsor already has two information stations with 800 CKLW and the local CBC Windsor radio outlet. I would think CBC Radio One is probably popular in the Windsor-Detroit market. I don't know anything about Windsor to really comment beyond this.

I agree that CKOC could go the community radio route. But they need to form an alliance with CHCH and The Spectator for any chance of success. These three need each other. Community radio works in smaller markets and it could in a larger city like Hamilton that is lacking local voices. But it will be a long slog. If CBC Radio One ever opens a local station in Hamilton/Niagara with a local morning show would also be a problem.

No, None that. You're completely blind to the current reality.
None of what?

None of the ideas to make CKOC work.

**Posted by paterson1** August 27, 2024 10:16 pm

Thanks for explaining. Didn't see why you would disagree about what I mentioned about CKWW. We have talked about the community radio option before for CKOC, and I disagree with you.

**Posted by WindsorWatcher** August 28, 2024 11:36 am

Al Pervin should be more than a little familiar with what attracts listeners in Windsor. He's a former host of the Hotline show at CKWW and was also program director back in the 1980s.

Last edited by WindsorWatcher (August 29, 2024 10:42 am)

**Posted by kevjo** August 31, 2024 10:10 am

RadioAaron wrote:
kevjo wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:

If it were a hole in the market, the station formerly in the format wouldn't have been unplugged. Key word there is "market." That format no longer provides a product (listeners) that the medium's customers are looking to buy - at least not at a rate that covers the cost to provide it.
It sounds like the time is ripe for someone to pursue a community licence for the market. With the right sales and marketing approach it could be a success.

How is a community license based on selling ads any different than a commercial approach?

It is a different type of licence which, firstly means that, aside from a couple management positions, the majority of the staff are volunteers thus keeping wage costs down. This has worked in communities of various sizes including bigger cities such as Winnipeg. One of this country's longest-running community stations is just up the road in Kitchener/Waterloo.
Secondly, varied programs targeted at specific cultural and special areas of interest provide an opportunity to obtain sponsors whose product or service caters to those groups.
As for covering local news, the station can liaise with local independent reporters who often have connections to obtain "scoops". The key is to be hyper local in everything and listeners will connect.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 31, 2024 10:16 am

On an AM in 2024? Even with volunteers (and good luck finding those), expenses would be higher than revenue.

**Posted by Saul** August 31, 2024 10:55 am

RadioAaron wrote:
On an AM in 2024? Even with volunteers (and good luck finding those), expenses would be higher than revenue.

You'd have to run on the cheap. Non-directional single tower perhaps on cheap owned or rented real estate (including atop a building). Enough power to serve the local area, while avoiding costly high wattage. Probably could be done, but not easy. Aaron, if I was running or owned such a community station, I might hire you to point out potential problems, but would take a view to finding ways to overcome them where possible.

**Posted by RadioAaron** August 31, 2024 11:16 am

I'd refuse the gig out of guilt of wasting your time and money.

**Posted by kevjo** August 31, 2024 11:39 am

Saul wrote:
RadioAaron wrote:
On an AM in 2024? Even with volunteers (and good luck finding those), expenses would be higher than revenue.
You'd have to run on the cheap. Non-directional single tower perhaps on cheap owned or rented real estate (including atop a building). Enough power to serve the local area, while avoiding costly high wattage. Probably could be done, but not easy. Aaron, if I was running or owned such a community station, I might hire you to point out potential problems, but would take a view to finding ways to overcome them where possible.

Exactly. It will be a challenge but with the right approach from people who know how to do community radio it could work.

**Posted by Saul** August 31, 2024 12:32 pm

RadioAaron wrote:
I'd refuse the gig out of guilt of wasting your time and money.

Perhaps or perhaps not. But the last thing I'd want is a team comprised wholly of dreamers. I've seen it happen in non-media undertakings. People getting blindsided because they like the shiny ideas and appearance and don't anticipate potential problems and risks, or don't know all aspects of the business they're getting into. The magic is assembling a small team that will anticipate issues and find ways to either navigate through or steer in a different direction. What worked 10-40 years ago is not a good reason in itself to format and program a station. And standalone radio has a best-before date that is on our doorstep. But I'm convinced aspects can be incorporated into a broader vision / bigger picture.

**Posted by paterson1** August 31, 2024 12:36 pm

The Grand 101.1 in Fergus ON seems to be doing well. They have been on the air since 2011 and moved into new facilities about 4 years after signing on.

Through the day and overnight the station sounds like many A/C stations. They regularly do live reports from advertisers on weekends and have a good variety of clients from the Fergus/Elora/Elmira/Guelph area. They have some national advertising and a cruiser to report from events through the week and weekend.

The weekday morning show is hosted by Billie Holiday and Friends ( Billie formerly of Madog and Billie on CHFI and Virgin). They also have a few other familiar broadcast alumni on air like Larry Peters who ran CKWR in Kitchener for years, Ron Fitzpatrick who worked at various stations in Southern Ontario and Paul Deacon who spent time at BBC. Deacon is on Saturdays and is quite the character on air doing various impersonations of the royal family and customized songs.

The station also has hourly local news all day through the week and some on weekends.

https://thegrand101.com/

**Posted by WindsorWatcher** September 24, 2024 11:48 am

Al Pervin, former host of the Hotline show at CKWW and also program director back in the 1980s, now hosts The People’s Talk Show weekdays at 10 a.m. on CKWW.

Last edited by WindsorWatcher (September 24, 2024 11:48 am)