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May 21, 2021 11:52 am  #1


Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

On his Friday morning show, NT1010's Jerry Agar broached the topic of the infamous Bill C-10, before devolving into a general discussion about the CRTC and eventually, the Canadian content rules. 

He admitted that when he worked for then Top 40 ratings hit CJME in Regina in the early 70s, he was on the evening shift and was told to shorten the Canadian content he was supposed to play, squeezing most of it into the 11 PM -midnight hour. In some cases, the songs were edited. In others, he just faded them out early in order to get more in under the quota. We've heard stories like this before, but most of them have been denied. This is the first time I can actually recall someone who was there openly admitting it - albeit some 50 years later. 

I would have loved to have heard the rest of the story, but he was interrupted by breaking news on the Astra Zenica shots, and never got back to it. 

But he did say one other thing in conclusion - he claimed that late hour was one of the highest rated on the station. So make of that what you will. 

 

May 21, 2021 1:06 pm  #2


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

I don't know about the ratings, but when I did 10p-2a on a CHR, 10p to Mid was 80 to 90% cancon.  Mid 1980's

 

May 21, 2021 4:35 pm  #3


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Jerry is a republican who would rather be working in the US.  He doesn't like this country or city even though it gives him a good living.  Naturally he doesn't like cancon or anything that makes us different from the US. Like a few on this site, he thinks media here should be just the same as the US.  

I find it very hard to believe that the 11-12 midnight slot on CJME crammed with mostly edited cancon would be one of the highest rated hours in the day. His story doesn't past the smell test or logical.  I worked with a guy in Thunder Bay who came to us from CJME in 1978, he never mentioned anything about editing or speeding up cancon at his former station.  I heard Jerry about 7 years ago going on about cancon and how it destroyed CKLW.  His comments were full of misinformation, bias anti government rhetoric,  he basically didn't know what he was talking about.  I emailed him to correct his "facts" and oddly I never heard back from him. 

When you point out to people like Jerry that CKLW was actually still number one 6 years after the cancon regulation came in, they always fall back on these fables about songs being speeded up or edited or all crammed in after 11pm as the reason they were able to hold on.   They can never admit that they are wrong, and it was actually FM that killed the music on CKLW and not cancon.  CKLW's slide in ratings happened the same time as other stations like KHJ, KCBQ,WKBW, WABC, WCFL etc. and these stations were not playing 30% cancon.  It was FM that destroyed AM music radio.  But these folks will never admit it, even though there is no evidence of cancon hurting CKLW or any other station for that matter.

Last edited by paterson1 (May 21, 2021 5:40 pm)

 

May 21, 2021 4:51 pm  #4


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Jerry Agar is a tired old Teabagger whose continued employment hinges on espousing expired opinions to an exhausted audience. His dismissal would be an act of mercy.

Also, I wonder if his disclosure is actionable.

 

May 21, 2021 6:51 pm  #5


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Charlie wrote:

...I find Agar exhausting, full of himself, dismissive and repetitive, but hey, what do I know?
 

Quite a lot, it seems. 

 

 

May 21, 2021 10:08 pm  #6


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Charlie wrote:

The network expanded his range to several other markets outside Toronto.  

Jesus wept.
 

 

May 25, 2021 11:30 am  #7


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

The CRTC;s bark is much worse than it's bite...in fact I am not sure it even has a bite. 

 

May 25, 2021 11:37 am  #8


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

paterson1 wrote:

The CRTC;s bark is much worse than it's bite...in fact I am not sure it even has a bite. 

Speaking of which, you may or may not agree with this Toronto Sun column, but it's an interesting read:

:CRTC's record shows why it should not regulate the internet

     Thread Starter
 

May 25, 2021 12:44 pm  #9


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Interesting read?  Really?  Typical Lilley article, he sometimes makes good points but then two paragraphs later blows it with exaggeration,  personal bias, and misleading inaccurate information. 

"The CRTC has had a stranglehold over radio and television broadcasters for decades..."  Stranglehold?  Give it a rest Brian. They are the broadcast regulator, democratic first world countries all have a government regulator for broadcasting, this is not unique to Canada.  So who if not the CRTC should determine which applicates gets a broadcast license?  Have a lottery?  Just hand out licenses to whoever has the money?

In terms of the internet, the days of the wild west are over, better get used to it.  Changes are coming here and everywhere.

Broadcasters in Canada over the last decades by and large have flourished, and the CRTC rightly or wrongly has allowed most mergers and the key players to get very big and very successful.  And the commission is hardly demanding on these huge conglomerates like Bell, Rogers and Shaw.  Large rich companies that often do the bare minimum.  These corporations still complain about having to produce domestic programming, or feature some Canadian programming.  Sorry boys and girls, this is what you signed up for. Time to grow up.

Lilley (and a few on this site) always resort to fear mongering, dark and ominous exaggerations and the fact that the CRTC seems to be easy on networks like RT and whatever China's CCTV or other state run propaganda channels run by that government.  Tell me, how many get RT or these other channels and actually watch them?  And the fact that Radio-Canada was doing a feature report on the problematic content of these Chinese state services shows that they are doing their job.  Radio Canada of course owned by you and me.  Oh and RT is shown all over the world, and have offices and studios in the US where they are offered on cable. 

And of course Brian always needs to include idiotic comments how the CRTC acts more like something from a communist country, approving what you can and can't watch.  What a bunch of garbage.  To compare Canada, one of the freest, most admired democratic countries in the world to dictatorships is beyond the pail and an insult.  Also shows that Mr. Lilley doesn't really know what he is talking about.  Also shows the sad state of journalism at the Toronto Sun....the little paper that shrunk.

Interesting read, I guess if you like commentary with fiction, misleading information and lots of anti government rhetoric.

 

May 25, 2021 3:04 pm  #10


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

paterson1 wrote:

Interesting read?  Really?  Typical Lilley article, he sometimes makes good points but then two paragraphs later blows it with exaggeration,  personal bias, and misleading inaccurate information. 

"The CRTC has had a stranglehold over radio and television broadcasters for decades..."  Stranglehold?  Give it a rest Brian. They are the broadcast regulator, democratic first world countries all have a government regulator for broadcasting, this is not unique to Canada.  So who if not the CRTC should determine which applicates gets a broadcast license?  Have a lottery?  Just hand out licenses to whoever has the money?

In terms of the internet, the days of the wild west are over, better get used to it.  Changes are coming here and everywhere.

Broadcasters in Canada over the last decades by and large have flourished, and the CRTC rightly or wrongly has allowed most mergers and the key players to get very big and very successful.  And the commission is hardly demanding on these huge conglomerates like Bell, Rogers and Shaw.  Large rich companies that often do the bare minimum.  These corporations still complain about having to produce domestic programming, or feature some Canadian programming.  Sorry boys and girls, this is what you signed up for. Time to grow up.

Lilley (and a few on this site) always resort to fear mongering, dark and ominous exaggerations and the fact that the CRTC seems to be easy on networks like RT and whatever China's CCTV or other state run propaganda channels run by that government.  Tell me, how many get RT or these other channels and actually watch them?  And the fact that Radio-Canada was doing a feature report on the problematic content of these Chinese state services shows that they are doing their job.  Radio Canada of course owned by you and me.  Oh and RT is shown all over the world, and have offices and studios in the US where they are offered on cable. 

And of course Brian always needs to include idiotic comments how the CRTC acts more like something from a communist country, approving what you can and can't watch.  What a bunch of garbage.  To compare Canada, one of the freest, most admired democratic countries in the world to dictatorships is beyond the pail and an insult.  Also shows that Mr. Lilley doesn't really know what he is talking about.  Also shows the sad state of journalism at the Toronto Sun....the little paper that shrunk.

Interesting read, I guess if you like commentary with fiction, misleading information and lots of anti government rhetoric.

In the immortal words of the late Rush Limbaugh, "Ditto!"
 

 

May 25, 2021 7:48 pm  #11


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

I can't speak for every station but I worked at 2 where we definitely flooded theban music industry was 10-12 PM with Cancon but it's important to remember the reason. When the Cancon regulations were adopted in the early 70s , the Canadian music industry was not able to produce enough good music. So a lot of the songs that got airplay were inferior to the international product. Part of it was a matter of scale and part of it was not being ready when the switch was made. There were a lot of Cancon knockoffs (remember the THP Orchestra or Paul Nicholas ( I think he covered Heaven on the 7th Floor). Anyway, the point is, because of the inferiority of early Cancon, programmers believed it was never better but we know that changed. Look at Canadian stars since the early days: Shania Twain, Drake, Celine Dion, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber, Michael Buble, Nickelback (don't say it), Shawn Mendes, Rush... world class, and for my money , Cancon was a big part of their success. 

 

May 25, 2021 10:18 pm  #12


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Rune wrote:

I can't speak for every station but I worked at 2 where we definitely flooded theban music industry was 10-12 PM with Cancon but it's important to remember the reason. When the Cancon regulations were adopted in the early 70s , the Canadian music industry was not able to produce enough good music. So a lot of the songs that got airplay were inferior to the international product. Part of it was a matter of scale and part of it was not being ready when the switch was made. There were a lot of Cancon knockoffs (remember the THP Orchestra or Paul Nicholas ( I think he covered Heaven on the 7th Floor). Anyway, the point is, because of the inferiority of early Cancon, programmers believed it was never better but we know that changed. Look at Canadian stars since the early days: Shania Twain, Drake, Celine Dion, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber, Michael Buble, Nickelback (don't say it), Shawn Mendes, Rush... world class, and for my money , Cancon was a big part of their success. 

Like anything new cancon did have a few growing pains in the early years.  Can't really agree that early 70's cancon was inferior.  Some songs were, but there were many gems as well.  The early to mid 70's had a lot of inferior music, classics like Afternoon Delight, I Was Made for Dancin' (Lief Garratt, remember him?), Disco Duck, Morning After, Angie Baby, Billy Don't Be a Hero, Muskrat Love, I've Never Been to Me and many many more mediocre songs and none of these cancon. 

THP Orchestra's version of SWAT in Canada was more popular than the original Rhythm Heritage version. Many stations played both for some reason.   THP got the single released prior to the US version of the song, and their version outsold Rhythm Heritage here.   Quality wise, there was no difference to my ears.  Same with Love is in The Air which was a bigger hit for Martin Stevens in Canada than John Paul Young.  CBS released the Martin Steven's version a few weeks prior to ABC Dunhill getting John Paul Young's version here.  Even though Martin Steven's version was well established on the charts, many stations again opted to play both which only confused people.  Listening to both, Steven's version was the best to me, and the hit version of the song, at least in Canada.

I guess I was fortunate to work at very ethical radio stations (all #1 in their respective markets), we never stacked cancon 10 to midnight at any of the stations in my career.  All playlist songs, super hits and recurring hits, gold were on the same rotation including cancon.   If you followed the format, hitting 30% was never an issue.

My first station was CKPR in Thunder Bay in 1977.  We had a show called the instant top ten that ruled the ratings everynight from 10:05 to about 10:40pm. Some nights up to 9,000 listeners for the show according to BBM.  The songs chosen were based on playlisted and charted hit songs requested by listeners, and yes we did take the calls, put listeners on air with their requests and kept track of what was requested.  All of this would happen from 9:30 to 9:55pm. We would even get requests in the summer months from Haughton Michigan, where CKPR was quite popular.

Every night without fail we would have 3 of the top ten requested songs cancon.  Sometimes as many as 6 out of 10.  We likely did have a few nights where less than three cancon songs were requested but it wasn't many, and I don't remember.  But I never recall having to play catch up before midnight to make up some cancon.

Last week on Evan Soloman's show he opened up the phone lines for a few minutes and asked people what was their COVID song to help them get through the pandemic.  About half of the songs mentioned by listeners were by Canadian bands- Triumph, Rush, Blue Rodeo, Doug and the Slugs, The Weeknd, BTO  are the ones that I remember.  I was quite surprised, and Evan didn't give the segment much promo, just rifled through calls on air. 

Sometimes what radio people think is important is not always the same as the listener.  Just sayin'.

Last edited by paterson1 (May 25, 2021 10:22 pm)

 

May 25, 2021 10:24 pm  #13


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Rune wrote:

IAnyway, the point is, because of the inferiority of early Cancon, programmers believed it was never better but we know that changed. Look at Canadian stars since the early days: Shania Twain, Drake, Celine Dion, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber, Michael Buble, Nickelback (don't say it), Shawn Mendes, Rush... world class, and for my money , Cancon was a big part of their success. 

Cancon has had absolutely nothing to do with the success of Drake, The Weekend, Shawn Mendes, or Justin Bieber.

 

May 25, 2021 10:42 pm  #14


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

paterson1 wrote:

My first station was CKPR in Thunder Bay in 1977.  We had a show called the instant top ten that ruled the ratings everynight from 10:05 to about 10:40pm. Some nights up to 9,000 listeners for the show according to BBM

Please tell me why something that worked in Thunder Bay 44 years ago has any relevance now?
 

 

May 25, 2021 11:28 pm  #15


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

RadioAaron wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

My first station was CKPR in Thunder Bay in 1977.  We had a show called the instant top ten that ruled the ratings everynight from 10:05 to about 10:40pm. Some nights up to 9,000 listeners for the show according to BBM

Please tell me why something that worked in Thunder Bay 44 years ago has any relevance now?
 

Rune was talking about early to mid 70's cancon.  So my story was directed at that era, and my experience.  Nothing more.

Aaron since you are here, you are correct that cancon had nothing to do with the success of Drake, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber and most of the others listed.  Sadly this magnifies the continuing inability of Canadian broadcasters in breaking new talent or spotting talented artists.  I put it down to some programmers being not really into music that much and just want to follow whatever the US charts say.  Also shows a lack of ambition, or because they don't have to.  

It is a little embarrassing that four or five of the biggest artists in the world are from here and Canadian broadcasting, radio and tv had nothing to do with breaking these artists or their initial success.  And just as bad, people like Bieber, Mendes, The Weeknd, Drake, Buble, and others all live here for much of the year and have homes in Canada.  But tragically there are no vehicles (talk shows or music programming) to interview or have these world class artists show up on any entertainment shows in their hometown or country.  That's because we don't have any.  But hey, we did try once about 30 years ago and we just couldn't make all of our money back quickly and Mike and Ralph didn't draw as good as Leno or Letterman.   

 

May 26, 2021 7:51 am  #16


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

I can tell you without fear of contradiction that programmers believed Cancon was inferior in the beginning and that didn't change as much as it should have in later years. Remember Octavian, Chester and Uranus and many others? I'm saying that because early Cancon was not seen to be as good as what was available internationally, programmers held that belief. There were a lot of turntable hits. 
As for the cover versions , some were very good, some weren't. The point I was making was more about the perceptions programmers had about Cancon. No more no less. I was in many music meetings where the Cancon adds were treated very differently from the rest of a playlist. It just was that way. It may be true that a lot of the artists I mentioned would have succeeded anyway, the impression that Cancon was inferior remained for far too long. 

 

May 26, 2021 8:46 am  #17


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

I always click on any post that quotes CFRB or the Toronto Sun cause it's why I keep coming to this board...for the old white guy, geriatric, comedy relief....

 

May 26, 2021 8:49 am  #18


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

(Nothing to do with Jerry Agar) but it should be relatively simple with respect to otherwise-popular programs such as that of Roger Ashby to "load up" with CanCon in the hour before and the hour after his program, so he can play the genuine, charted hits of the mid and late 50s   

What's not so simple is that the Ashby program is syndicated to different stations at different times, so they would have conspire (for lack of a better word)

What's the probability that other broadcasters wd cooperate with such a scheme?     Less than zero probability you say?     Sorry, Roger.    

 

May 26, 2021 11:27 am  #19


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

Ashby plays 30% cancon on his show.  This is amazing that he manages to do this since much of his show focuses on the music of the 50's and early 60's.  Since all of the music on his show  is from mid 50's to mid 70's his program may not be required to play 35%.   Hat's off to Roger Ashby being able to pull this off every week, and managing to put together an interesting and musically innovative oldies show.  His is like no other on the radio and he has the big challenge every week of including a lot of cancon. But every week he pulls it off and manages to cobble together a great show.  I noticed that he rarely plays Anne Murray.

 

May 26, 2021 11:56 am  #20


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

paterson1 wrote:

Ashby plays 30% cancon on his show.  This is amazing that he manages to do this

From Saturday/Sunday's show:    Ian & Sylvia, Pagliaro, Gord Lightfoot, CSN+Y, Curtola, Beaumarks, Poppy Family, Keith Hampshire & Paul Anka, from memory, there may have been others

Is all material that Robbie Laine and Norm Edwards are playing (or have voicetracked) on AM 740.   

Is all good material and if it wasn't played every day it would be worth tuning in, particularly when backed up by Ashby's broadcasting skill


geo
 

Last edited by geo (May 26, 2021 11:58 am)

 

May 26, 2021 12:34 pm  #21


Re: Jerry Agar's Cunning CanCon Confession

It's interesting you mentioned Robbie Lane.  I don't listen to his show that much but I swear every time I tune in  he plays Michael Jackson.  And he plays the same song, like Billie Jean or The Way You Make Me Feel.   Also the Heat is On by Glenn Frey seems to appear in his 80's hour a lot. 

I don't listen to AM740 enough to hear the duplication between Ashby's show for cancon and what is played on 740.  But I doubt that AM 740 would be playing Ian and Sylvia You Were On My Mind everyday.  They may play Ian and Sylvia a 4 or 5 times per week but not the same song.

This is the problem with various stations playing only gold.  You are guaranteed that you will hear the same songs and artists all the time from these statons, cancon or otherwise.  And it is getting worse with "testing" of songs.  The fact that a song was in the top five 40 years ago doesn't mean it will get played any more on some stations if it didn't score well with the testing.  So you have a smaller and smaller pool of classic or gold music to draw from if you adhere to the testing model. This bugs people like you and me, but do listeners care or notice?  That I am not so sure.