sowny.net | The Southern Ontario/WNY Radio-TV Forum


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

May 12, 2022 9:23 pm  #1


The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

I can't quite recall a day like Thursday. So many shows on so many networks were cancelled on the same day that it's simply incredible. Shows get canned all the time, but I can't recall so many - 17 in all - being dumped in one 24-hour period. I only watch a few of these so I won't miss many of them, but here are the names of the walking dead (which is a cable show and not on the list!) 

Note: There are other previous cancellations and there may be more, but all these were the ones announced in the past 24 hours. 

NBC

The Endgame
Mr. Mayor
Keenan 

CBS

Good Sam
B Positive
Magnum P.I. 
How We Roll
United States Of Al

ABC

Promised Land
Queens

FOX

Surprisingly, no cancellations were announced on Thursday.

THE CW

Not everyone can get this network in Toronto, but because they may be sold before next season, The CW went hog wild, cancelling so many shows at once it was dizzying. Here's the list:

The 4400
In The Dark
Legacies
Naomi
Roswell, New Mexico
Charmed
Dynasty

All these are in addition to other shows, whose cancellations were previously announced. I'm guessing many here may have never seen or even heard of some of these, but consider this: a lot of these shows were not only picked up by Canadian networks but by cable stations here. They will leave big holes in their schedules and all will have to be replaced.

With what? 

Well, that quite literally remains to be seen. 

 

May 13, 2022 12:55 am  #2


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Odd enough CBS's How we roll looks like it had some potential. If they have any "burn off" episodes, they should toss them in a new timeslot somewhere (not Saturday night) and see what happens. 
 


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

May 13, 2022 7:19 am  #3


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Honestly, I don't think I've seen a single episode of any of those shows. (I saw the original Magnum, of course, but not the reboot.)

Last edited by Hansa (May 13, 2022 5:56 pm)

 

May 13, 2022 7:57 am  #4


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Hansa wrote:

Honestly, I don't think I've seen a single episode of any of those shows. (I saw the original Magnum, of course, but not the reboot. 

And that, in a nutshell, may be exactly the dilemma the old fashioned non-streaming over-the-air broadcasters face in the Internet age. Yet the traditional networks still attract millions of eyeballs every night, so while their power is undeniably diminished, someone is watching. Whether it stays that way is another matter. But it doesn't surprise me you've never heard of any of them. That speaks volumes about where they are.  

     Thread Starter
 

May 13, 2022 7:58 am  #5


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Other than news, some late night talk shows and the odd special or sports program, I watch little OTA television.  All of my viewing is specialty channels, documentaries, news, sports,  Crave and HBO.  Friends in the same demographic as me aren't watching OTA television either, especially prime time. This is bad news since the traditional networks have always counted on older demos.

Regular network programming has too many commercials/promos and too many police procedurals, medical dramas, and the odd sitcom with only a few that are actually funny. To keep costs down the networks are getting back scheduling game shows in prime time and most of these don't hold much interest. 

I haven't seen or even was aware of most of these cancelled shows.  On Canadian channels you may see more movies in prime time which would be interesting.  CHCH is doing a bit of this already and stations here have more freedom what they can show than their US counterparts.  

 

May 13, 2022 8:08 am  #6


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

And yet the major Canadian stations and networks are slavishly devoted to a schedule that mimics their U.S. counterparts to take advantage of simulcasting. Perhaps that strategy will change as the numbers and viewership continue to decline. 

Still, there are people who stream some of these OTA shows off their respective network websites or streaming services, numbers which are now officially factored into the ratings. (I believe it's for 7 days after they air on free TV.)

Another telling stat about how things have changed: there are almost no network shows or actors in contention when the Emmy nominations come out. Almost every single show on the list is from a streaming service.

The future has arrived. And the major networks, at least in their present form, may not be part of it.  

     Thread Starter
 

May 13, 2022 8:16 am  #7


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Radiowiz wrote:

Odd enough CBS's How we roll looks like it had some potential. If they have any "burn off" episodes, they should toss them in a new timeslot somewhere (not Saturday night) and see what happens. 
 

 
I kind of liked How We Roll, but noticed the last few weeks they've been running back to back episodes. I feared it was the dreaded "burn off." I guess the fear was justified.

I couldn't really care about any of the other cancelled shows except one. I really liked "Mr. Mayor." It was a quirky comedy co-created by Tina Fey with a good cast. Bobby Moynihan and Holly Hunter were particularly funny.

 

May 13, 2022 8:30 am  #8


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Good Sam was DOA from its start going up against Chicago PD. The three CBS sitcoms listed ran on Thursday night. None could hold the massive lead in audience given by Young Sheldon and Ghosts. Plus stiff competition from Grey's Anatomy and the Law & Order's didn't help.

 

May 13, 2022 8:36 am  #9


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Actually, simsub over the past few years is down a lot.  This again was largely because of COVID and the lack of new programming.  Daytime there is little simsub and prime time there are some evenings where there is only a few hours on either CTV or Global. If US network programming continues to slide in the ratings, you may see  Canadian networks be more selective with programming from the streaming services and as I mentioned before getting movies back in prime time. 

If you look at the TV schedules decades ago, movies were a big part of prime time for all of the networks.  They may be ripe for a comeback, and the Canadian channels have an advantage that US OTA networks and channels don't. 

 

May 13, 2022 8:55 am  #10


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

I disagree. Almost all network daytime programming is is simsubbed. The View, The Chew. Price Is Right, Days Of Our Lives, General Hospital are all carried by Global, CTV or CITY. Admittedly, that is not many shows. However, the three U.S. networks returned most of the daytime slots back to their affilliates many years ago.  Long gone are the days when the nets provided weekday programming from 10AM-4PM.

 

May 13, 2022 9:42 am  #11


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

paterson1 wrote:

Actually, simsub over the past few years is down a lot.

 
I’m not sure how you can possibly say simulcasting is down. (I was referring solely to primetime.) In fact, the evidence suggests the opposite is true.
 
Here’s a look at the major weeknight sked, minus the CBC, which does not carry any American programming. The source is the current Star Week magazine.
 
SUNDAY

Global: 60 Minutes, The Equalizer, NCIS: Los Angeles, S.W.A.T (Entire schedule is duplicated with CBS.)
 
CTV: American Ninja Warrior (simulcast with NBC), MasterChef Jr. (non-simulcast), The Rookie (simulcast with ABC)
 
City TV:  Duncanville (simulcast with Fox), American Idol (simulcast with ABC) This is an anomaly this week. Normally, City simulcasts the entire Fox Animation Domination line-up.
 
MONDAY
 
Global:  911 (simulcast with Fox), NCIS (simulcast with CBS), New Amsterdam (simulcast with NBC)
 
CTV: Big Bang Theory (non-simulcast rerun), Bob Hearts Abishola (simulcast with CBS), 911 Lone Star (simulcast with Fox), The Good Doctor (simulcast with ABC)
 
City TV: A movie and two episodes of Mom, non-simulcast night.
 
TUESDAY
 
Global: FBI, FBI International (both simulcast with CBS), New Amsterdam (2nd episode of the week, simulcast with NBC)
 
CTV: The Resident (simulcast with FOX), This Is Us (simulcast with NBC), Surreal Estate (non-simulcast.)
 
City TV: Non-Simulcast programming, including Canada’s Got Talent
 
WEDNESDAY
 
Global: Survivor, Beyond The Edge, FBI (all simulcast with CBS)
 
CTV: The Masked Singer (simulcast with Fox), The Connors, Home Economics (simulcast with ABC) Domino Masters (non-simulcast - Fox airs it an hour earlier.)
 
City TV: Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago P.D. (all simulcast with NBC.)
 
THURSDAY
 
Global: The Neighbourhood (non-simulcast), U.S. of Al, Ghosts, How We Roll, Bull, (all simulcast with CBS)
 
CTV: Station 19, Grey’s Anatomy, Big Sky (all simulcast with ABC)
 
City TV: Law & Order, Law & Order S.V.U., Law & Order Organized Crime (all simulcast with NBC.)
 
FRIDAY
 
Global: Come Dance With Me (simulcast with CBS), The Blacklist (non-simulcast - NBC shows it an hour earlier), Crime Beat (not a simulcast)
 
CTV: Shark Tank (simulcast with ABC), Magnum P.I., Blue Bloods (both simulcast with CBS).
 
City TV: Movie, Hudson & Rex (not simulcast).  

--------------------------------------------

As you can see from that list, a good 85-90% of the major Canadian networks are all simulcast-all the time, with only a few exceptions, mostly City TV on three nights of the week.
 
Otherwise most duplicate at least one American network almost every night in primetime. (I’ve deliberately left out Saturday, since the U.S. networks have essentially abandoned that night.) So your contention that “simsub is down a lot” is clearly, provably not correct.

paterson1 wrote:

If you look at the TV schedules decades ago, movies were a big part of prime time for all of the networks.  They may be ripe for a comeback...

Here we're more in agreement. Although the days of big network movies on TV may be a blast from the past. I would argue most viewers are now used to films on pay cable or streaming uninterrupted by commercials. So I'm not sure if the ratings for a non-first run pic would do as well as it once did, unless it's somehow an exclusive premiere that's never been shown on any TV service before. There aren't many of those any more. 

Perhaps the "Movie Of The Week" franchise that was a big part of ABC's strategy in the 70s could make a comeback. But it would still face competition from streamers like Netflix and others, which make their own original content. So even that might not work like it once did.  

     Thread Starter
 

May 13, 2022 10:14 am  #12


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Like I said simsub was absolutely down during COVID when the networks were showing repeats and some special programming that was not simulcast.  I remember hours of Big Bang Theory in prime time on CTV and none of it was simsub.

Schedules are back to normal now, but there isn't more simsub than before if that is what you are trying to say.  Saturday prime time there is normally no simsub on Global or CTV primarily because Saturday is a weak night ratings wise and they use it as a night to build up their cancon average for the week. 

And I maintain if ratings continue to slide with US OTA networks you may see less simsub here.  Already new shows on US TV (some that you listed as getting cancelled) are not always picked up here in the first place.  

 

May 13, 2022 5:41 pm  #13


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

"As you can see from that list, a good 85-90% of the major Canadian networks are all simulcast all the time.."
HUH??  Prime time is classified as 6pm to midnight.  CTV and Global are more like 40-50% prime time simulcast and not even every night.  And if you look at a weekday broadcast day (6am to 12midnight) both Global and CTV come in at around 6 hours of simulcast per day, and sometimes less, out of 18 hours. 

As you mentioned City often has no simsub three nights of the week, CHCH has little simsub and often none, CBC has no simsub, Global and CTV 40-50%, but if you average in nothing on Saturday for these networks and one hour on Friday for Global and two hours for CTV on Tuesday the averages come down from 40-50% simsub prime time for the week. 

 

May 13, 2022 5:45 pm  #14


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Never watched a second of any of them.  Never even heard of most of them.  Rest in peace.

 

May 13, 2022 5:51 pm  #15


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

paterson1 wrote:

"As you can see from that list, a good 85-90% of the major Canadian networks are all simulcast all the time.."
HUH??  Prime time is classified as 6pm to midnight.  CTV and Global are more like 40-50% prime time simulcast and not even every night.  And if you look at a weekday broadcast day (6am to 12midnight) both Global and CTV come in at around 6 hours of simulcast per day, and sometimes less, out of 18 hours. 

As you mentioned City often has no simsub three nights of the week, CHCH has little simsub and often none, CBC has no simsub, Global and CTV 40-50%, but if you average in nothing on Saturday for these networks and one hour on Friday for Global and two hours for CTV on Tuesday the averages come down from 40-50% simsub prime time for the week. 

Not sure why you think primetime starts at 6 PM. By any measure I've ever heard, it's classified as 8 PM -11 PM. (unless you're in the Central Time Zone, then its 7 PM-10 PM.) Counting in those extra two hours is no metric I've ever heard of and I've been following this stuff since I had a subscription to Variety at age 12. They've restricted primetime to those three hours. They've been around since before TV was invented. I'll take their word for it. 

If you accept that (and I know you don't) then the simsub numbers are huge. It's just a fact. Canadian stations have been deliberately arranging their schedules to match their U.S. counterparts since cable arrived in this country and the CRTC stuck its nose into it to protect Canadian outlets.

It's why they do it.

And they do it a lot. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 13, 2022 6:47 pm  #16


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

It is only considered that by the networks in the US because the FCC took some hours away  back in the 70's.  Prime time is 6pm until midnight and has been for a long time. So no I do not accept prime time as 8 to 11pm, because it isn't. 

Look at the ratings, Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, CTV Evening News, Global National, Coronation Street, CTV National News usually make the top 30 highest rated programs and they do this five days per week.  None of these programs are broadcast 8-11pm.

I would think that on local American stations that their 6pm local news and shows like  Wheel, Jeopardy, Family Feud, or Big Bang, 11pm local news would actually be some of their highest rated evening programming, none of it on the network and none 8-11pm.

And these 8-11pm hours are becoming less important for OTA networks since ratings have dropped dramatically.  A network show with 2 million live viewers is not great, and even if they doubled those numbers with streaming and viewing later in the week still dreadful.  

ABC's highest rated ongoing program right now is their 6:30 evening network news with about 8.8 million viewers every night.  You think that the agencies and networks don't consider 6:30 as prime time?  Just because the networks aren't allowed to program 7 to 8pm does not mean it is not prime time.  The ratings confirm this. 

I wasn't quibbling about Canadian networks rearranging schedules to take advantage of simulcast since they have paid for exclusive rights for Canada.  The US networks are totally on board with this and like the arrangement since they get to charge more money. When talking about simsub this should be part of the discussion, rather than just the CRTC and ones opinion of them.    

The original comment about 85-90% of Canadian networks simulcasting all the time in prime time is not correct.  And I wanted to highlight that for the total 18 hour broadcast day, 6am to midnight, simsub usually makes up 6 hours and sometimes less. So as much as some dislike simsub, it doesn't make up as much of prime time, the broadcast day or week that many think. 

 

May 13, 2022 7:15 pm  #17


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

paterson1 wrote:

It is only considered that by the networks in the US because the FCC took some hours away  back in the 70's.  Prime time is 6pm until midnight and has been for a long time. So no I do not accept prime time as 8 to 11pm, because it isn't. 

Look at the ratings, Wheel of Fortune, Jeopardy, CTV Evening News, Global National, Coronation Street, CTV National News usually make the top 30 highest rated programs and they do this five days per week.  None of these programs are broadcast 8-11pm.

Correct. None are broadcast between 8-11 PM. Why? Because that's where the networks show their expensive comedies and dramas. In PRIMETIME. 

The time between 7-8 PM in the U.S. is known as Prime Access. It was created to reduce the impact the networks had on local TV stations and allow them to sell local commercials during syndicated programming like Wheel and Jeopardy, created especially for this time period. This is NOT considered primetime by the FCC and is, in fact, designed to be the exact opposite. Therefore, by its very definition, it's not the same as the three hours that follow it.

paterson1 wrote:

I would think that on local American stations that their 6pm local news and shows like  Wheel, Jeopardy, Family Feud, or Big Bang, 11pm local news would actually be some of their highest rated evening programming, none of it on the network and none 8-11pm.

Right, because it's not technically classified as primetime. The shows there, while successful and hopefully money making for the local stations are just that - local. You're talking semantics. Primetime has long been considered the hours between 8-11 PM. That's what the national ratings services like Nielsen measure nationally.  

paterson1 wrote:

And these 8-11pm hours are becoming less important for OTA networks since ratings have dropped dramatically.  A network show with 2 million live viewers is not great, and even if they doubled those numbers with streaming and viewing later in the week still dreadful.

On this, at least, we agree. Streaming has eaten the networks' collective lunches in recent years and it's only going to get worse. The numbers are declining and continuing to do so. I can't see any way they'll be able to stop the slide. The slide that's happening in PrimeTime!

paterson1 wrote:

ABC's highest rated ongoing program right now is their 6:30 evening network news with about 8.8 million viewers every night.  You think that the agencies and networks don't consider 6:30 as prime time?  Just because the networks aren't allowed to program 7 to 8pm does not mean it is not prime time.  The ratings confirm this.

The time period you're referring to is quite important. But you can't compare the network news to a show like "This Is Us" or "The Good Doctor." They're not the same thing because the time periods are so vastly different. 

By the way, I also subscribe to the U.S. TV Guide. They once listed every show in every time period. They don't anymore. ALL their listings - every page - is mostly dedicated to the time periods from 8-11 PM. Printed at the top of each page are the words "Prime Time." So they don't really agree with you, either. 

paterson1 wrote:

The original comment about 85-90% of Canadian networks simulcasting all the time in prime time is not correct.  And I wanted to highlight that for the total 18 hour broadcast day, 6am to midnight, simsub usually makes up 6 hours and sometimes less. So as much as some dislike simsub, it doesn't make up as much of prime time, the broadcast day or week that many think. 

Actually, it is correct if you go by the more commonly applied metric. Just because you refuse to recognize how it's measured doesn't make it wrong. If you choose to interpret it that way, it's up to you. But the rest of people in TV would likely not be on your side on this. 

     Thread Starter
 

May 13, 2022 8:22 pm  #18


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Good points RA, however I don't really care how the FCC classifies prime time or what it was change to years ago.  Prime time in Canada is 6pm until 12midnight.  The ratings before and after 8-11pm are often as strong and sometimes better as was discussed and advertising rates would reflect this, so therefore it is still prime time. 

Canada doesn't have the Prime Access Hour and our networks broadcast many more hours per day.  The fact that the FCC deems prime time as 8-11 doesn't apply here.  

 

May 14, 2022 7:31 am  #19


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

When the FCC ordered the networks to give the 7-8pm time slot to their affilliates, the local stations were warned not to fill the period with reruns of old series and "encouraged" to develop new programming. PM Magazine and Entertainment Tonight were two of the early results.

 

May 14, 2022 8:12 am  #20


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

paterson1 wrote:

Good points RA, however I don't really care how the FCC classifies prime time or what it was change to years ago.  Prime time in Canada is 6pm until 12midnight.  The ratings before and after 8-11pm are often as strong and sometimes better as was discussed and advertising rates would reflect this, so therefore it is still prime time. 

Canada doesn't have the Prime Access Hour and our networks broadcast many more hours per day.  The fact that the FCC deems prime time as 8-11 doesn't apply here.  

 6-7pm is the "informative hour". It does not count as prime time.


RadioWiz & RadioQuiz are NOT the same person. 
RadioWiz & THE Wiz are NOT the same person.

 
 

May 14, 2022 8:35 am  #21


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

I programmed several Canadian TV stations in the 90's and my mandate was to aquire as many U.S. programs as possible that could be simulcast in prime time::: 8 - 11pm. 

 

May 14, 2022 9:23 am  #22


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

I do need to have a bit of humble pie here.  The CRTC now classifies prime time as 7pm to 11pm.  However ratings 6-7pm and after 11pm (CTV National News) are often in the top 30 and as strong as 8-11pm. 

So simsub is not near 85-90% in prime time because that figure is not available to simulcast. I am not disputing that CTV and Global try to match up their schedule in the evening with American networks to take advantage of simsub but also to get a better return on their investment.  Over the last two years simulcasting has been going down not increasing.  Largely because of COVID but not totally and I think this trend could continue since US prime time programming ratings continue to slide and are not bringing in the ratings from even five or six years ago. 

 

May 15, 2022 12:44 pm  #23


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

So what's replacing all these shows? While admittedly it's not fair to judge by the simple descriptions provided without having seen them, a first glance suggests there's nothing here to indicate the streamers have anything to worry about.

The Full List of New Broadcast Series Orders So Far

     Thread Starter
 

May 15, 2022 2:31 pm  #24


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Not much here that interests me. However, I would probably check out several episodes of the Night Court reboot.

 

May 19, 2022 7:57 pm  #25


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Honestly, when I look at the fall line-up on the broadcast networks for September, I really despair for what will happen to so-called free TV. This is one of the saddest schedules I've seen in decades. And what happens when the Law & Order, Chicago Med/Fire/PD, 911 and FBI franchises either wear out their welcomes or get too expensive to produce?

I suppose the execs. who make these decisions have no one to blame but themselves when the ratings keep dropping and streaming numbers get stronger.

Paterson1 may notice that the CW's Sunday night line-up is all Canadian with Family Law, which comes from Global, opening the evening and CBC's Coroner closing it out. 

This list is from Deadline.
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Fall-TV-Grid-2022.png

     Thread Starter
 

May 19, 2022 9:35 pm  #26


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Interesting that after 35 years, Fox still hasn't (and likely won't) developed programming for the 10 pm slot. My understanding is this is because a number of big city Fox affiliates run an hourlong 10 pm newscast and then have syndicated shows at 11 as counterprogramming against NBC, CBS, and ABC and so are unwilling to give up the 10 pm slot. (Same with "The CW). I also doubt Fox will ever try a weeknight late night show again after the disasters of the Joan Rivers Late Show and the Chevy Chase Show, particularly as late night is now heavily saturated. 

 

May 21, 2022 8:13 am  #27


Re: The End Is Here: One Of The Biggest OTA Network Cancellation Days Ever

Magnum P.I. still had fairly good ratings for CBS. However, the studio that produces the series was asking for more money than the eye network was willing to pay. So the axe fell.