If they're testing something, maybe they borrowed to make it possible?
That would be more economical than to invest and find out something isn't right.
 

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

I think I'm missing something... Wouldn't Durham need approval to relocate from FCP to the CN Tower?
Also, I'm really curious to hear what coverage is like from this new HD signal.

I thought, as long as the tower is in it's place of licence, CRTC won't care where the tower is. (in Toronto) 
I could be wrong...

 

Typo error.  KX96 repeater IS STILL at First Canadian Place.  NOT CN Tower.   

The 95.9 repeater signal is the weakest signal in Toronto - why are they even bothering.  Sometimes I want my country fix and driving around Etobicoke it sometimes barely comes in.

radiokid wrote:

Country audiences are not large enough in central Toronto, which is why it makes it hard to consider flipping a Toronto station to it.  Those who tried, failed. 

I don't think Country music is a failure for the Toronto market.
It's just not going to have a million listeners.
That can still be a good thing if unique advertisers want a Country audience to advertise to.
What good is advertising to a million teenagers on a top 40 station if a hundred thousand Country fans meets the need to get word of select businesses out there?

Should Tampex be advertised on Q 107? Or is it a better fit for CHFI?  
You see my point?
It's not always about the number of listeners. Sometimes it's about who's actually listening and how to grab THEIR ear instead of just any ear.

If Herbert's boots and Western wear were to choose to open a store in Toronto, you can bet they'd much rather advertise on a Toronto Country music station than any other station...even if it means reaching a hundred thousand listeners instead of reaching a million kids. (or whatever)

 

Not sure what stations in Toronto have flipped to country and failed.  Maybe on AM 40 years ago but nothing recent.  92.5 CISS FM was a new country FM station located in downtown Toronto and came on the air in 1989.  They had a country format for almost 10 years and were quite successful with good ratings. 

In 1999 Rawlco the company that founded CISS sold the station to Rogers who immediately changed the format to Top 40 and became POWER 92.  This imaging lasted only 20 days after complaints from Power 88.5 in Newmarket and Corus Radio.  Corus had several POWER stations out west and were looking to move Q107 to be branded POWER 107. Rogers changed 92.5 to the first incarnation of KISS 92.5.

Even though KISS 92.5 had lots of great on air talent, the Top 40 format was tweaked to include more rhythmic and hip hop songs.  After close to four years Top 40 was abandoned in 2003.  KISS 92.5 became one of Rogers first JACK FM stations playing classic hits. 

Personally I think a country FM in Toronto would do well with the proper promotion and on air talent.  Plus it would be the only station playing country since all of the others are fringe.   Corus should drop CFNY's format which has been burning rubber for years and move to country.  I think the station with the coverage that 102.1 has would do just fine.  Lots of rural areas around the GTA that 102.1 hits with no issues. 
 
Look at Vancouver, a big complex city that is just as diverse population wise as Toronto with 93.7 JR Country.  This station has been a country outlet since it signed on in 1986. JR Country is very successful and is in the top 5 stations in Vancouver.  In fact in one recent book they were #1 in the market.  So if country can work in Vancouver it likely would in Toronto as well.  Just takes some time and persistence.   And play new modern country, not a bunch of cross overs.  
 

paterson1 wrote:

Not sure what stations in Toronto have flipped to country and failed.  Maybe on AM 40 years ago but nothing recent.  92.5 CISS FM was a new country FM station located in downtown Toronto and came on the air in 1989.  They had a country format for almost 10 years and were quite successful with good ratings. 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

paterson1 wrote:

Sorry, CISS went on the air in 1993, my mistake.

Okay, thanks for correcting yourself.

paterson1 wrote:

I glanced at the headline on wiki regarding CISS and it said The Beginning and Country Music 1989-1999.  However they were successful with the country format signing on in 1993 until they started to play too many country cross over songs years later.  Rogers didn't seem to have any interest in continuing with the country format when they took over the station.  Even before approval of the change of ownership, Rogers took over management of the station and switched to a top 40 format which wasn't successful. 

The top 40 format WAS successful until they suddenly decided to go urban/rhythmic hits, even though there's flow for that.
The flow listeners chose not to switch over, so Rogers tried Jack. Then they went back to Top 40 (as in, not urban or rhythmic)  Virgin radio is doing better, but their numbers are still not bad.
Rogers just doesn't do Country in Toronto.
Twice now, they've ended it.
First with the takeover of Country 59 and then later with the takeover of Ciss 92. 

A Variety Country format is what I'd like to see in Toronto. I believe it has potential. 
On another note, is is possible that Rogers saw Ciss country to be a threat to CHFI? 
Top 40 better secures that they are not competing with themselves.

After Maclean-Hunter's unsuccessful attempt to flip 590 to an oldies format on FM (CKO frequency swap) it flipped for a short time to country.  I believe that ended when 1430 was sold to Fairchild as part of the Rogers acquisition of McLean-Hunter.   Following the 1430 hand-off to Fairchild, sports went over to 590. From wikipedia
On January 1, 1984, CKEY flipped from its long running MOR format to soft rock/oldies as "Solid Gold CKEY", and on June 20, 1988, the station became "Key 590" with a full-blown oldies format, once again competing directly with a re-formatted CHUM. At 7 p.m. on March 14, 1991, CKEY signed off and began stunting with a heartbeat; the following morning at 9, the station adopted a country music format, changing its callsign to [b]CKYC.[3][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHKT#cite_note-4][4][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHKT#cite_note-5][5][/url] The CKEY callsign was subsequently picked up by a station in [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Erie,_Ontario]Fort Erie.[/b]

 

Thank you Radiowiz and geo for your comments.
 
First Radiowiz, if Top 40 was successful for the new KISS 92.5 back in 1999, then why suddenly add in non Top 40 rhythmic and hip hop songs?  Why would they eventually copy what FLOW was doing?  This was a station that wasn't successful and had poor ratings, so why would you start to play similar music?   If KISS or Rogers was happy with the numbers as a Top 40 station, they wouldn't have changed anything, but they did, and more than once.
  
Now geo.   I  never said ignore cross over material, I said don't overload the music with too much cross over.  Stick with new or today's country music.  However some new country and new country gold does include some cross over artists already like Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, Darius Rucker.   There is no point in loading up your playlists with a lot of Bare Naked Ladies, Linda Ronstadt, Eagles, James Taylor or old country gold that showed up on pop music stations.   People who don't like country music won't listen to the station anyway, so there is no point catering to them. Best to stay with new country which is likely what urban country fans really want to hear.  But yes the odd cross over artist or song will still happen. 

Advantage of new country is a younger demographic,  today's country music is one of the most radio formats in Canada,  the audience tends to listen for many hours during the week.  Country fans are radio listeners, and loyal to their station.  It is a big hit in Vancouver and likely would be in Toronto as well.  Use Vancouver's JR Country as your blue print....easy.     

Last edited by paterson1 (August 11, 2021 10:02 am)

geo wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

     some new country and new country gold does include some cross over artists already like Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, Darius Rucker.   There is no point in loading up your playlists with a lot of Bare Naked Ladies, Linda Ronstadt, Eagles, James Taylor or old country gold that showed up on pop music stations   

Bill Parsons, Buck Owens, Conway Twitty, Don Gibson, John R. Cash, Hank Locklin, Jim Reeves, Ferlin Husky, Hank Snow, Sonny James, Dave Dudley, Faron Young & Marty Robbins work for Rick Ringer in Owen Sound; why not Toronto? 
 

Well first off Owen Sound isn't Toronto and is much more rural. The area also has a long tradition of country music with CKNX 920 which has always played more traditional music.  Country 93 bills itself as Today's Best Country and plays mostly new country music. They may have some shows or features on Sunday that play more gold and bluegrass which is fine, but that doesn't appear to be their overall format.  Rick Ringer sounds great with country music.  He is on right now and seems to be playing current country music.  And looking at the stations playlist, I  see very few country older gold so far today, only one between 6am and 11am.  That would be Charlie Rich with The Most Beautiful Girl. 

markow202 wrote:

   New music and only new with the odd old country throwback of something like Shania Twain   

Who can forget that old country throwback, Shania Twain?



 

Even right now KISS is only doing so/so or average in the ratings with a 2.6% audience share.,  #12 out of 24 stations in the Numeris radio ratings.  Considering that KISS has the resources of Rogers and lots of TV promo, and half of their morning team (Roz Weston) is a host on Global's  ET Canada,  it's surprising the station isn't pulling in a bigger audience. 

paterson1 wrote:

Even right now KISS is only doing so/so or average in the ratings with a 2.6% audience share.,  #12 out of 24 stations in the Numeris radio ratings.  Considering that KISS has the resources of Rogers and lots of TV promo, and half of their morning team (Roz Weston) is a host on Global's  ET Canada,  it's surprising the station isn't pulling in a bigger audience. 

Virgin is only bringing in 2.9...not much difference.  2..6 is still a good number compared to the 1.9 that Flow is bringing in.
Also, where are all the alt rock kids? They don't seem to be over at CFNY's 1.6 share or Indy 88's 1.1 share.

Long story short, a 2.6 is better than what some of the others are bringing in. Maybe it's also not about trying to get a 4 share at all, but instead simply a placeholder that exists as a station that is not a threat to CHFI.

I suspect that Kiss would have better ratings if ET Canada were a City TV program, that way Roz would be a lot more free to talk about what's coming up on his morning show.  

As for why there is no Country on 92.5, it's probably because Rogers thinks Country music is a THREAT to CHFI.
Better to have a 2.6 on it's own than to have a larger number that takes a bite out of CHFI's numbers.
 

Anyone experiencing the same problem?   KX96 FCP downtown repeater broadcasting only in analogue for approx. 2 weeks.   HD Subcarriers are not being received.