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January 31, 2018 11:16 am  #1


Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

Sorry I couldn't get everything in on the last post.                                                                                                         WNLO: Currently 1000KW at 994'. Application in to increase tower height by 85'. Same Power.                                 WUTV: Currently 1000KW at 983' When they move to ch 36 they have a Construction permit for 400KW at 1368' and an application for 800KW at 1368'  if ch 29 becomes spotty that may be the reason. June-Aug 19 is their move time. WNYO: Currently 198KW at 1234' When they move to ch 16, 99.8KW at 1234'  Application in for 575KW at 1079'. There is a slight signal null between Toronto and Oshawa. Hope this helps.

 

January 31, 2018 11:32 am  #2


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

Sounds like bad news for those who watch anything OTA on Fox. I'm not sure why they would want to reduce their power but hopefully it will still be receivable most of the time here. Right now, it's one of the better signals into the GTA. 

If there was one station I'd like to see get a boost it's low-power WBBZ, currently on virtual channel 67 (actually on channel 7.) MeTV is the kind of network it would be great to receive but the station comes in here maybe once or twice a year in the summer, when conditions are just right. And it usually doesn't last long. 

 

January 31, 2018 1:24 pm  #3


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

mace wrote:

Sorry I couldn't get everything in on the last post.                                                                                                         WNLO: Currently 1000KW at 994'. Application in to increase tower height by 85'. Same Power.                                 WUTV: Currently 1000KW at 983' When they move to ch 36 they have a Construction permit for 400KW at 1368' and an application for 800KW at 1368'  if ch 29 becomes spotty that may be the reason. June-Aug 19 is their move time. WNYO: Currently 198KW at 1234' When they move to ch 16, 99.8KW at 1234'  Application in for 575KW at 1079'. There is a slight signal null between Toronto and Oshawa. Hope this helps.

Increase in height to the existing tower (add pieces to it?) or whole new tower?  

 

January 31, 2018 1:31 pm  #4


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

For WUTV question is whether your OTA reception for WIVB is currently reasonable.  Since WUTV will be transmitting from WIVB's current tower, comparing apples to apples:   WIVB transmits with 790 KW from Colden NY off of Center Street.  WUTV will transmit with 800 KW.  But the antenna is 800M above sea level at Colden is much higher than Grand Island.   Channel 39 (WIBV's current channel) is also subject to interference from Toronto's Ch. 40, particularly during certain fade-down weather conditions.  Despite all of that, in Mid-Town WIVB is quite reliable.   So WUTV should be similar.  The big "winner" should be Channel 49.  Again, apples to apples, its ERP will go from 198 KW to 575 KW from the same site.  But with the frequency change from UHF 49 down to UHF 16, propagation should be much more reliable, and if you go to fccdata.org - you will see a fairly good projected signal that gets to the middle of L. Ontario.  Comparable to other Buffalo stations - in their current operation.   The big winner is obviously WIVB, when it moves to Ch. 32, the signal will go to the edge of Brampton, as will WNLO the CW affiliate.   The other "big" winner is WNED, which is tricky. in terms of reliable reception...it goes from 156 KW ERP up to 345 KW ERP and drops from Ch 43 (also impacted by Toronto stations) down to Ch. 31.   The fccdata.org map indicates a significant improvement for WNED. Basically no change in coverage for WGRZ though it does raise its power by 42KW (10%).  That 10% increase does not always equate to a major coverage change, but every DB of signal increase will make a difference out at the fringes...which is where we are in fact we are beyond the fringes...  I also see a lot of variations between TV manufacturers.  LG currently seems to have among the best tuners.  Again, apples-to-apples, stations that don't "lock" in on an older Samsung, are stable on newer vintage LG UHD 4K tv's and LG 1080 capable TV/s  Bottom line, since we are outside of the predicted coverage area for most Buffalo UHF's, every DB of signal loss, at your antenna, antenna line, mis-pointed antenna, or TV tuner can impact reliability of reception.  That could all change of course, if/when stations convert to ATSC 3.0 and we will all need new tuners or have to buy set-top boxes to keep our sets operating.  Unfortunately even so-called "smart tv" sets, might not be able to upgrade the firmware in their OTA tuners via the Internet.   

Advice if you wish to receive the Buffalo stations through severe weather and fade-down situations, invest in a reasonable pre-amp -under $100.   The improvement in signal margins may surprise you - with far less signal loss.  I did a re-build using a very old antenna (45 years+), which was refurbished last fall..added a preamp.and signals are far more stable.  

This could get very interesting, given the frequency separation of some of the Buffalo stations from stations on the CN tower.

Last edited by tvguy (January 31, 2018 1:34 pm)

 

January 31, 2018 4:16 pm  #5


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I added a preamp and can't get Fox for the life of me.  That's ok, I get Quest now.

 

January 31, 2018 5:01 pm  #6


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I get Fox WUTV in the winter and barely in the summer.  All other Buffalo stations come in all the time.  

These changes look all positive to me! 

Last edited by markow202 (January 31, 2018 5:01 pm)

 

February 1, 2018 1:58 pm  #7


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

RadioActive wrote:

Sounds like bad news for those who watch anything OTA on Fox. I'm not sure why they would want to reduce their power but hopefully it will still be receivable most of the time here. Right now, it's one of the better signals into the GTA. 

If there was one station I'd like to see get a boost it's low-power WBBZ, currently on virtual channel 67 (actually on channel 7.) MeTV is the kind of network it would be great to receive but the station comes in here maybe once or twice a year in the summer, when conditions are just right. And it usually doesn't last long. 

Unfortunately, no such luck. According to FCCdata.org, WBBZ has no pending applications to improve their signal north of the border. We are stuck with their popgun 27KW output from a 300' tower.

     Thread Starter
 

March 7, 2018 4:51 pm  #8


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I wonder if anyone else here is having this problem. Two weeks ago, WNLO, Channel 23, and WNED Channel 17, suddenly stopped coming in at my location here in northern North York. My 40 foot antenna is on a rotor with an amplifier and I've tried everything to get them back, to no avail. Everything else still comes in as normal, so it's not the equipment at my house that I can tell.  

Nothing here has changed (no new buildings, no LTE towers etc.) and yet two of the strongest stations into Toronto have mysteriously disappeared on me. I'm told both originate from the same site. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

This is also of note because I just spoke to a WIVB engineer who told me they haven't done anything either. But he did reveal one item that will certainly be of interest to antenna fans in the GTA. The repack switch-over for WIVB, which is moving to the WNLO tower, is scheduled for April 23 - just a month and a bit from now. 

That means anyone receiving channel 4 over an antenna will likely have to re-scan on that date in order to keep getting it. The good news (except maybe for me!) is that the the transmitter is much closer to Toronto and very powerful, so it should mean a vast improvement for the CBS affiliate for those on this side of the border. 

 

March 7, 2018 5:20 pm  #9


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

RadioActive wrote:

I wonder if anyone else here is having this problem. Two weeks ago, WNLO, Channel 23, and WNED Channel 17, suddenly stopped coming in at my location here in northern North York. My 40 foot antenna is on a rotor with an amplifier and I've tried everything to get them back, to no avail. Everything else still comes in as normal, so it's not the equipment at my house that I can tell.  

Nothing here has changed (no new buildings, no LTE towers etc.) and yet two of the strongest stations into Toronto have mysteriously disappeared on me. I'm told both originate from the same site. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

This is also of note because I just spoke to a WIVB engineer who told me they haven't done anything either. But he did reveal one item that will certainly be of interest to antenna fans in the GTA. The repack switch-over for WIVB, which is moving to the WNLO tower, is scheduled for April 23 - just a month and a bit from now. 

That means anyone receiving channel 4 over an antenna will likely have to re-scan on that date in order to keep getting it. The good news (except maybe for me!) is that the the transmitter is much closer to Toronto and very powerful, so it should mean a vast improvement for the CBS affiliate for those on this side of the border. 

Thats strange unless weather related. I have seen no changes in those stations myself.

 

March 7, 2018 6:13 pm  #10


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

WNLO is the strongest signal into the GTA, so it makes no sense. I also hoped it was weather related but we've had different conditions over the last two weeks with no change. 

It appears to be related to my location. I just heard from another poster off board who lives in the general vicinity to me, and he lost channel 23 at the same time as I did. 

Very strange and very frustrating! What in the world could it be?  

 

March 7, 2018 7:50 pm  #11


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

RadioActive wrote:

WNLO is the strongest signal into the GTA, so it makes no sense.
Very strange and very frustrating! What in the world could it be?  

Digital home might have some answers.
I'd ask them...  http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/81-over-air-ota-digital-television/

Last edited by Radiowiz (March 7, 2018 7:54 pm)

 

March 7, 2018 8:33 pm  #12


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

Worth a shot. Thanks for the suggestion. 

 

March 7, 2018 9:59 pm  #13


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

Quite the mystery.   Are you certain that your amplifier hasn't malfunctioned.   WNLO and WNED continue to "blast" into mid-town, with no perceptible change in signal strength.  I installed an amp on one of my antennas late last fall (chimney mount) and both signals have been rock solid.  I have never seen WNLO "fade down" due to weather conditions, though the signals for WGRZ and WIVB are susceptible to fading during some weather conditions. Out of interest, how is Ch. 49 WNYO (MY TV) - and 51 WPXJ (Ion TV) at your location.  49 is far more problematic, and 51 is seldom strong enough to lock in.

 

March 7, 2018 11:53 pm  #14


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I unplugged my amp just to see what would happen. Nothing but local T.O. channels. When I plugged it back in, everything from Buffalo (except the two missing signals) were back. That tells me the amplifier is still working. What's really strange is that in most cases when I check, the actual signal strength is good. But the signal quality is at 0 or maybe 9, where it used to be close to 100, resulting in a black screen.

On Wednesday night, WNLO and WNED popped back up for a few hours, only to start pixelating again later and then disappearing. Talk about a ghost in the machine. (Although I thought ghosting went away with analog!)

WYNO is pretty solid and I haven't seen the Ion stuff on Channel 51 in a while. But that usually returns in the summer.

 

March 12, 2018 8:12 am  #15


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I can't explain it, but over the past 72 hours or so, all the reception problems I listed above mysteriously stopped. WNLO's signal seems to be stronger than before, while Channel 17 is back, as well, although not quite at peak strength. All this on a grey day when you might expect the damp weather could swallow the signal.

So what happened? Impossible to say. But I heard off board from another SOWNY antenna user who lives in the same general geographic area that his signal suddenly popped back in, too. I may never know the answer why, but I just hope it's back for good. (Say, it changed not long after I talked to the WNLO engineer on the phone. You don't suppose...? Nah, couldn't be!)

Anyway, thanks for all your advice.

 

March 12, 2018 10:29 am  #16


Re: Buffalo TV Changes Part 2

I meant to reply earlier - just so you know, reception of WNLO and WNED did not change for me in Peterborough. Same strength [good] as always