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Tue Jan 30 10:20 am  #1


The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Go to almost any radio market – even a small one – and you’re likely to find a true oldies station somewhere on the FM dial.
 
But not in Toronto.

Ever.
 
It’s one of the few formats that for some reason has never been tried in this city on the stereo side of life. There was a time when the CRTC’s ridiculous “reduced hits on FM” rule put the kibosh on it. But that’s no longer the case. So why has no one ever tried it here?
 
True, there are fringe stations all over the place – Oshawa's CKDO likely being the closest. But their 107.7 repeater is all but non-existent in most of the GTA. And while Boom 97.3 is close, it mainly plays 80s and 90s. I would argue it can’t be a true oldies station without the 60s being more prominently represented.
 
I don’t think AM 740’s 96.7 repeater counts, either. Not only is it weak in parts of the city, but the station has too many other components (talk shows, specialty weekend programming, big band shows, old time radio etc.) to qualify as a full time oldies outlet.
 
And Q107’s emphasis on straight rock precludes it from entering the category, either.  
 
We came close – if CKEY’s AM 590 signal had been allowed to flip dial positions with the old CKO at 99.1 as they requested a long time ago, Key 590 might still be on the air.  But that never happened, either.
 
It could be argued that the time for this format is over. Yet before CKOC switched to all sports (now garnering an infinitesimal 0.2 rating) it got numbers as high as 4. It certainly seems someone was listening to it. So why a single owner in the largest market in Canada has never managed to even give this format a try on FM is puzzling.
 
And while it’s never likely to be #1, it generally does carve out a niche wherever it appears. Better than everyone playing the exact same “Perfect Music Mix.”
 
It works and continues to work elsewhere. Why not here?

 

Tue Jan 30 10:31 am  #2


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

The non-hit rule prevented it, then once that was lifted it became non-viable demographically. It does exist in the US, but barely in any bigger competitive market.

Also, all of the Toronto FMs that have lower ratings have 40% Cancon, making it a pretty unappealing option.

 

Tue Jan 30 10:37 am  #3


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

'True Oldies' is Led Zeppelin and the stones.  That was almost 50 years ago.  We do have a true oldies station, it's at 107.1FM.
 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

Tue Jan 30 10:50 am  #4


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

The Can Con thing will always be a problem for oldies stations, until the CRTC finally gets around to saying enough is enough. That likely won't happen in our lifetime.

I find it hard to believe that stations like CIND-FM (Indie 88.1) with a 0.9 in the last book or a Groove 98.7 (CKFG) which ekes out a 1.1 in its best days couldn't do better with a format change. (Although there'd be hell to pay from the specific communities those stations are currently aimed at and they admittedly do have a specialty niche audience cornered.)  But how much worse could they do? 

As for Q107 being a true oldies format, it's close. But without the formatics that's so endemic to a true adherent of such an outlet, I'd have to respectfully disagree. But perhaps it and Boom are close enough that no one else would bother to try.

Either way, it's a moot point, because it's never going to happen here. 

     Thread Starter
 

Tue Jan 30 10:56 am  #5


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Q107 is a true oldies station like 640 is a true professional talk outlet.

 

Tue Jan 30 11:05 am  #6


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

If an oldies station plays old music, isn't that an oldies station?

I'm honestly surprised Moses hasn't started an HD oldies station or 3, they broadcast of BOM so it wouldn't be an issue to get that underway.  If there is a demand, that's where it would be satisfied. 
 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

Tue Jan 30 11:15 am  #7


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

ig wrote:

     I'm honestly surprised Moses hasn't started an HD oldies station or 3 

As reported right here in SOWNY by Neil Hedley, AM-740 has walked away from vintage rock 'n roll in favor of the eighties.    They seem intent on capturing that popular & profitable CHFI FM 98 vibe
 

 

Tue Jan 30 11:17 am  #8


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

ig wrote:

If an oldies station plays old music, isn't that an oldies station? 

I count formatics - the stuff between the songs - as part of the definition. I know there's a hate on these days in some demos that find disc jockey "interruptions" annoying. But I've always said that what happens between the songs is as important as what they're actually playing. I may be the only one that feels that way. But that's why I wouldn't count Q as a true oldies station.

Another reason? One of the hallmarks of the so-called Golden Age of Top 40 was that you might hear a Rolling Stones song followed by say, a classic Glen Campbell hit. There's no way Q would ever play Neil Diamond or The Monkees. Maybe that's a good thing. But that was the true spirit of Top 40 and I would argue, oldies radio, too.   

     Thread Starter
 

Tue Jan 30 11:36 am  #9


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

RadioActive wrote:

Another reason? One of the hallmarks of the so-called Golden Age of Top 40 was that you might hear a Rolling Stones song followed by say, a classic Glen Campbell hit. There's no way Q would ever play Neil Diamond or The Monkees. Maybe that's a good thing. But that was the true spirit of Top 40 and I would argue, oldies radio, too.   

That lasted right into the 80s as well.  Late 1980, you could hear "Woman In Love" by Barbara Streisand right after "Whip It" by Devo.  Then into Donna Summer's "The Wanderer".  Then go back a decade ago (something CHR formats don't do now) and play "American Woman" by the Guess Who.  It was serendipitous in the respect that you never knew what was coming up next.
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
Q:  What did one 45 say to the other?
A:  Are you "single"?  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.gif
 

Tue Jan 30 12:05 pm  #10


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

As in oldies as were talking 50s and 60s music?   Like Chuck Berry and the good fun boppin tunes?

Although I doubt it would work (as a lot of people in this city are one-track Bruno Mars minded music CHUM FM loving people) it would be a good idea if Q107 or Boom did a one or two hour shows of this format perhaps....then again these two stations dont need much help for their ratings.

We could dream.  Only place I listen to radio is at work anyways.  Commercials and someone having control over my music sucks. 

 

Tue Jan 30 12:23 pm  #11


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

I know I'm a broken record, but I think we're missing the real viability and power of HD. 

For some reason the multicultural stations understand and have quickly adopted to the multiple streams available to them.   CJSA is my poster child for how it can be done.   It may be because their communities were introduced to SCMO from the early days, and this is just SCA on steroids.

101.3-1 - 20+ Languages
101.3-2 - Tamil
101.3-3 - Hindi & Urdu
101.3-4 - Punjabi

Members of all these communities used to go out of their way to find SCA radios and tune in sub-carriers to get 8k shite versions of their targeted station, now they get a signal that is as clean as any terrestrial FM in the city.  

I believe this is where the 'diversity' will be seen in Toronto radio over the next few years.  Technically there's nothing except money & a nice note to the CRTC to stop Moses from putting up all variety of 'zoomer' formats.  Who has the radios?  Mostly people in cars and a few enthusiasts like me.  But like XM was built by truckers with no access to 'live' radio, HD radio is being driven, as I outlined above, by people seeking out formats and music that isn't readily available.  And if anyone can get their head around that, it's exactly the same strategy Moses used with City and the Blue Movies to get people to not only switch to UHF, but then crank the UHF dial all the way to the end.    He could probably emulate the Sirius 40/50, 60 and 70's on 3 sub channels and do really well.  All the while using CFMX as the main income generator.

If you offer the content, AND MARKET THE FACT THAT IT'S AVAILABLE, people will work to find it.
 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

Tue Jan 30 12:25 pm  #12


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

CKDO Oshawa is available on HD3 at 95.9FM  and CKOC lives on at CHTG (the Grand - Haldimand) which is on Hamilton's 94.7 HD3... Oldies on FM across the GTA....both at 30% CanCon

 

Tue Jan 30 12:27 pm  #13


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Wasn't the plan to have Grapevine 1220 sign on as a true oldies station?? What ever happened to that idea?? 
I know it's not Toronto, but it's still an idea...

 

Tue Jan 30 12:41 pm  #14


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Bristol wrote:

CKDO Oshawa is available on HD3 at 95.9FM  and CKOC lives on at CHTG (the Grand - Haldimand) which is on Hamilton's 94.7 HD3... Oldies on FM across the GTA....both at 30% CanCon

True, but how many people have an HD radio these days? They could eventually become more widespread but for now, both of those stations are mostly shut out on FM here.
,  

Radiowiz wrote:

Wasn't the plan to have Grapevine 1220 sign on as a true oldies station?? What ever happened to that idea?? 
I know it's not Toronto, but it's still an idea...

I also await news of Grapevine, but who knows if it's ever coming? Plus if CHSC was any indication, their signal is non-existent here at night. The thread, though, was about oldies on FM, something that's in almost every major market, but has never been done in Toronto.

     Thread Starter
 

Tue Jan 30 12:48 pm  #15


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Bristol wrote:

CKDO Oshawa is available on HD3 at 95.9FM  and CKOC lives on at CHTG (the Grand - Haldimand) which is on Hamilton's 94.7 HD3... Oldies on FM across the GTA....both at 30% CanCon

"Hey Google..  Listen to CKDO"  and it's available anywhere

 


Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
 
 

Tue Jan 30 1:29 pm  #16


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Whatever happened to Saturday Night Oldies on 98.1?  They do something similar now but its 70s and 80s on Saturday nights....still good.

 

Tue Jan 30 2:57 pm  #17


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

markow202 wrote:

Whatever happened to Saturday Night Oldies on 98.1?  They do something similar now but its 70s and 80s on Saturday nights....still good.

Randy Bachman on CBC "won"
 

 

Tue Jan 30 5:01 pm  #18


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

As I look at the calendar, it's 2018. Subtract 40 years and it's 1978. In 1978, a FM station playing the great hits of the ''50s and '60s would have been very popular (think Scott Carpenter's "Canadian Graffiti", or Don Daynard's "Lookin' Back.") OK now return to 2018. The '50s and '60s of today are now the '90s and '00s, are they not? So how about an oldies or "throwback" station playing a wide variety of music from the early '90s to the present? The same 1978 oldies station but with 2018 parameters. Does anyone do this? Would this potentially be a popular format? I wonder.

Last edited by Dale Patterson (Tue Jan 30 5:02 pm)


"The radio craze ... will soon fade." - Thomas Edison, 1922
 

Tue Jan 30 5:29 pm  #19


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Dale Patterson wrote:

As I look at the calendar, it's 2018. Subtract 40 years and it's 1978. In 1978, a FM station playing the great hits of the ''50s and '60s would have been very popular (think Scott Carpenter's "Canadian Graffiti", or Don Daynard's "Lookin' Back.") OK now return to 2018. The '50s and '60s of today are now the '90s and '00s, are they not? So how about an oldies or "throwback" station playing a wide variety of music from the early '90s to the present? The same 1978 oldies station but with 2018 parameters. Does anyone do this? Would this potentially be a popular format? I wonder.

This is true!  I think the problem also is the 50's 60's music got the label of being "oldies" and should be as its own era and sound for that time.

Flow/The Move 935 tried that 90s until today format "all the best throwbacks" and dont think it did the best apparently.  Now its back to more of a mainstream hip hop.

 

Tue Jan 30 5:37 pm  #20


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

   The '50s and '60s of today are now the '90s and '00s, are they not?   

No, not even close.    
 

Well, no in that they don't sound anything like them, but they are if we're doing the math on why/when true "Oldies" radio worked in the first place.

Using 60s as Oldies now is like using 30s music as oldies in the 80s.
 

 

Tue Jan 30 5:39 pm  #21


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Dale Patterson wrote:

   The '50s and '60s of today are now the '90s and '00s, are they not?   

Mr. Patterson probably posts nonsense like this to get me to throw up my hands & leave like Ziggy eventually did.    
 

 

Tue Jan 30 5:40 pm  #22


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

markow202 wrote:

Whatever happened to Saturday Night Oldies on 98.1?  They do something similar now but its 70s and 80s on Saturday nights....still good.

That's Oldies now. If you were 16 when your favourite song ever came out in 1979, you're 55 now, and (wrongly) in your first year of not being an advertising target.

 

Tue Jan 30 6:53 pm  #23


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

The only difference between 1958 and 2018 is that in 1958 we cruised to the A + W at 9:00 p.m. whereas we now cruise to Tim Hortons at 9:00 a.m.

 

Tue Jan 30 6:55 pm  #24


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

And now you're in bed by 9 PM!

     Thread Starter
 

Tue Jan 30 7:07 pm  #25


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

RadioActive wrote:

And now you're in bed by 9 PM!

The other difference is that in '58, Little Richard and Jerry Lee were enjoyed on AM radio whereas in 2018 a cassette or CD player provides the tunes

 

Tue Jan 30 7:50 pm  #26


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

geo wrote:

The other difference is that in '58, Little Richard and Jerry Lee were enjoyed on AM radio whereas in 2018 a cassette or CD player provides the tunes

Uh Geo?  I think you meant 1998 for the cassette deck and CD player

 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
Q:  What did one 45 say to the other?
A:  Are you "single"?  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.gif
 

Wed Jan 31 6:32 am  #27


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Jody Thornton wrote:

 I think you meant 1998 for the cassette deck and CD player 

I took my '98 to the local dealer for service and they gave me a 2018 as a loaner.  It is equipped with neither a cassette deck or CD player but has Sirius FM which is nice.   But other than Sirius tunes and fancier gauges, it doesn't do anything that my '98 won't do.   

Seriously.


 

 

Wed Jan 31 1:15 pm  #28


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

   The '50s and '60s of today are now the '90s and '00s, are they not?   

Mr. Patterson probably posts nonsense like this to get me to throw up my hands & leave like Ziggy eventually did.    
 

The simple premise is that to "oldies" to a twenty-something person today is '90s and '00s, the same way oldies to a twenty-something in the '70s would be '50s and '60s. Thus, why not a format like that.

It has nothing to do with the music, just a reflection on changing demographics.

This should be simple enough for you to understand.


 


"The radio craze ... will soon fade." - Thomas Edison, 1922
 

Wed Jan 31 4:20 pm  #29


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

geo wrote:

Jody Thornton wrote:

 I think you meant 1998 for the cassette deck and CD player 

I took my '98 to the local dealer for service and they gave me a 2018 as a loaner.  It is equipped with neither a cassette deck or CD player but has Sirius FM which is nice.   But other than Sirius tunes and fancier gauges, it doesn't do anything that my '98 won't do.   

Seriously.


 

Well my 2017 will automatically stop to avoid a collision, keep me in my own lane automatically and maintain distance on the highway from the vehicle in front of me automatically.  My 2002 couldn't do that.  However, no CD player.
 

 

Wed Jan 31 4:42 pm  #30


Re: The One FM Format Toronto Has Never Tried

Dale Patterson wrote:

   It has nothing to do with the music, just a reflection on changing demographics   

Doug Ford told John Oakley a few minutes ago that when he is crowned Premier Ford he will take care of the interests of all demographics.    
 

Last edited by Jonny (Wed Jan 31 4:43 pm)